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Old 09-24-2011, 12:32 AM   #1
Ragdoll
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How to fix FF PART 2

1. Remove flamethrower, I-cannon, and napalm.
2. Replace flamethrower with automatic shotgun. Damage is between that of single and super shotty, is automatic, 10-round magazine, 6-second reload time. Provides pyro with a higher skill ceiling on its primary weapon rather than a cone-based m1=win weapon. The spread is fairly tight, but it should be close-ranged rather than long-ranged weapon.
3. Replace the I-cannon with a thumper grenade launcher. This gives the pyro a long-range punch, but can only hold one round and has a lengthy reload time (3-4 sec). This prevents explosive spam. In terms of damage, it should be about the damage of a pipe, maybe between that of a pipe and a rocket.
4. Replace the napalm grenades with shield grenades that create a pocket of force much like the slowfield that prevent any damage to those inside it from sources outside the radius of the grenade. It does not prevent or hinder movement of any way, so an enemy can waltz inside the grenade to damage those inside it and be protected from outside damage. The grenade lasts 5 seconds, after which it disappears.
5. Rename 'pyro' to 'assault'.
6. Add world reload animations.
There. It's fixed.
/flameshield on.
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Old 09-24-2011, 03:04 AM   #2
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Or you know, just tweak it here and there.

But minor tweaking just wouldn't be dramatic enough, would it?
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Old 09-24-2011, 05:42 AM   #3
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the obvious solution is to add 5 classes, each with an ability and ability power bar. and an xp system to unlock new abilities
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:23 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragdoll View Post
3. Replace the I-cannon with a thumper grenade launcher. This gives the pyro a long-range punch, but can only hold one round and has a lengthy reload time (3-4 sec). This prevents explosive spam. In terms of damage, it should be about the damage of a pipe, maybe between that of a pipe and a rocket.
I'm not sure what the purpose of this is, since it seems handicapped in multiple ways. It sounds like the RL would be superior to this in every way except maybe travel time, but that doesn't mean a whole lot if it's doing less damage than a rocket or is the same as one pipe. I'd rather have a weapon with a higher payload and even longer reload time, or else something like the TFC style IC, small damage, but fast ROF. I think the only thing this would do would make me want to play soldier instead. Unless it also has an ability to curve towards sniper rifles.

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4. Replace the napalm grenades with shield grenades that create a pocket of force much like the slowfield that prevent any damage to those inside it from sources outside the radius of the grenade. It does not prevent or hinder movement of any way, so an enemy can waltz inside the grenade to damage those inside it and be protected from outside damage. The grenade lasts 5 seconds, after which it disappears.
/flameshield on.
Quake Wars has something almost exactly like this that I think would be more fun since this sounds like a planned invulnerability feature. In QW, it lasts about a minute, but slowly gets weaker. It can block a LOT of shots, but explosives (which are more lethal than FF) will take it out. I like the idea more of something that protects you longer, but won't save you from a barrage of fire.
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:25 AM   #5
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I don't like the idea of any player-usable invulnerability/shields/whatever.

Hurr I'm 1v1ing a guy in the corner of x map, I plant this item and now I'm invincible.

Damn it's 12v12 and this shield is shit worthless.

Alternatively, chain 6 invincibility shields together and run the flag through. FANTASTICO!

Well no.
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:32 PM   #6
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Cant find words so i thought this put it perfect:


Again, the devs want interactive mechanics. This is another one of those invulnerability aspects that does nothing but give an advantage to one player over the other. Being able to go inside is not enough to counter-balance said grenade and all this would be is another laming tactic to 1 up people. Fighting against someone who could become invincible at any one moment is not fun, its annoying. If you want to fix this game and add new ideas and mechanics, try thinking of things outside of the box.
Think of a level playing field in which players must use the resources they have to one up their enemy without using cheap tactics. That is, in fact, why this game is skill-based and not TF2.

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Old 09-25-2011, 09:44 PM   #7
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Here's how I like to design improvements to games:

Problem phase

1. Identify a problem with the game
2. Agree with other people that the problem is a real problem
3. Agree with other people that the problem is an important problem

Requirements phase

4. Identify the multitude of approaches we could take to solving the problem, and describe the solution in terms of the fundamentals in how it should be solved

Design phase

5. Come up with concrete solutions which fit these requirements
6. Debate and Evaluate the suggested solutions


Skipping to 6 without doing at least 1 and 2 is a little futile.

Your chances of getting said changes implemented would be much improved if you at least state the problem you're trying to solve, and preferrably why this problem is important compared to the other problems right now.
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Old 09-26-2011, 02:28 AM   #8
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Pyro - completely fine as it is.

The only change I would suggest, as I have stated plenty of times before, is a shift away from DPS whore and more to disruption, as he was in TFC. We already have sollies, engies, medics, spies, HWs, snipers...every other class except scout is able to deal damage well enough. While most of them deal damage in different ways, I liked the pyro's role in TFC - blinding multiple enemies for a few seconds, notably in dustbowl choke points and other places where he was guaranteed to score hits.

That being said, I -really- like the burn system FF has. It encourages interactions on both players' parts, and involves a fair bit of skill. Maybe decrease the burn time by 1 tick though - so maintaining a burn is a bit tougher.
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:16 AM   #9
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heres my idea of improving it:

statement: the game is dead

cause: game engine is shit. stop blaming the weapons or classes and shit! ff's features are just fine, a well improved tfc it is. but its on a way wrong game engine coz its hard to afford better ones, coz the whole world is too greedy for money.

solution: just a theory, moving the game to a better (suitable) game engine.

need to do a research about game engines which are affordable by this community who wants ff to exist. then, make ppl actually support the game by paying its engine to be built on.

i know theres a possiblity of a newer souce engine, but i dont think any fast paced fps could be played properly on a source engine yet. i only enjoy gmod of source mods cause its meant to be hilarious.
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Old 09-26-2011, 09:35 PM   #10
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OK, here it is: I agree with Raynian. Completely actually. I felt the need to point that out.

Also, I wouldn't say the game is dead, but yes there are no players frequently. Right now there are a great many reasons for that. Half-life in general hasn't gotten much attention lately as they haven't released anything for it since episode 2. After many years people get bored with a game and want something different. Or at least the illusion of something different. I would joke about changing the name and the skins and pretending it's a new game. But then someone would take me seriously.

The game is sound. it needs tweaks and edits here and there, but what 3rd party mod doesn't? When it comes to independently developed games I would say this one has some damn good support and some decent polish. Not exactly the best, but pretty darn good.

Ultimately, what I think goes on, is some of "you" get frustrated with a certain minor aspect of the game and in your frustration decide that must be the problem. You're passionate so you try to fix it, and then post your ideas for all to see. But try to understand before these posts go out there that there is more complicated a situation than a simple fix.

In all honesty I think and assault class sounds like fun. But I don't think it belongs in FF. A different class based game perhaps, but not FF.
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:15 AM   #11
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Quote:
cause: game engine is shit
has nothing to do with anything remotely gameplay related, really. or much of anything, but whatever
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:47 AM   #12
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Quote:
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solution: just a theory, moving the game to a better (suitable) game engine.
I find everyone who suggests this doesn't really have a clue as to how much work is involved with this. Here are reasons this is a bad idea:

1. Another game engine is very time consuming to learn, look how much time it takes for some of the patches, I doubt devs have enough time to just throw it all out to learn another engine.

2. Another engine will almost certainly be better in some ways, worse in others. They ALL have some bugs, and some are better documented than others.

3. I could be mistaken, but I believe no other engine has near the number of online players for mods than Source. Sure, something Unreal 3 has a lot of mod tools now and is big in the industry, but it doesn't have the same kinds of numbers of online players Source mods do. This probably goes double for FF, which at least attracts SOME people over from TF2, or previously TFC.

4. Assuming everything else can be ported, which is iffy, FF already uses a lot of assets like models and textures from HL2. This would all have to be replaced or redone.

5. THE GAME WORKS AND IS RELEASED. All the hard work is DONE. It's suicide to try another engine unless you're setting the scope of things far lower than what FF has achieved already (stock models, textures, animations, etc.).
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:55 AM   #13
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We would sooner make an entirely new game than port FF to another engine.
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:48 AM   #14
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so what was the point of all the effort that been made until now?
to create a remake of a 10 yr old game which is still being played much more than the remake?

im sorry, but there are hundreds of players who still play tfc just because theres nothing like it. im pretty sure they would be willing to play something feels close or "actually better" than tfc. and apparently ff is not it, for them.

as we speak about the amount of SOURCE MODS there exists... remember how succesful HL1 engine was at movement based mods, like Adrenaline Gamer, TFC and shit. it was full of fcking bugs but it still was OKAY..
is source engine anything like it? considering how many source mods there are? well, i have gmod, dod, killing floor, tf2, alienswarm installed atm as source mods and none of them has a movement system or anything close.

ive bought a new computer that ran crysis2 at %90 of its highest settings but i am playing 3 multiplayer games most of the time: TFC (12ish yrs old), Warsow (14yrs old q2 mod) and quakelive (12 yrs old q3 engine) coz they have decent engines.

i always felt good for ff. as mentioned at my previous psot, its a well improved version of tfc with most of its features. just please stop blaming minor things like new weapons or class specials etc. i dont think they have anything to do with why is ff dead.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:23 AM   #15
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hey, raum, have you pld much of warsow's "CTF Tactics" gamemode? if so, what do you think of it?
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:05 PM   #16
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I've played warsow and for the most part it's pretty fun, but the movement is too confusing. It's like FF speed on crack.
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Old 09-27-2011, 07:58 PM   #17
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World reload animations would be great. Also, taking off the fullbright on the ff models would take away at least part of the aged feeling. It doesnt make sense that i can see a scout whos in a pitch black room with no lighting clear as day. same goes for buldables too. i
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Old 09-28-2011, 01:20 AM   #18
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Quote:
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I've played warsow and for the most part it's pretty fun, but the movement is too confusing. It's like FF speed on crack.
hehe noobie! you spam dash/dodge and bounce off walls like a retard while people struggle to hit you with underpowered weapons you can always seem to get away from with dash. I dont understand how its confusing though, its quite similar cpm movement with an additional button to walljump/dash


Quote:
Originally Posted by raum
Warsow (14yrs old q2 mod)
Warsow runs on qfusion, which was based off of q2, but it is such an improvement in every way, its not comparable to quake2. Or the quake3 engine even, so I have to nitpick here
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:42 AM   #19
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are you kidding i don't think any of these ideas will save this game infact it might just kill it off once and for all.
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Old 09-29-2011, 07:49 PM   #20
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hey, raum, have you pld much of warsow's "CTF Tactics" gamemode? if so, what do you think of it?
never heard of it, i wonder whats "tactics" for.. ill check servers for it

ive played insta ctf for a while tho, it was quite fun. "spamming dash/dodge and bouncing off walls like a retard" that lets u continuously bhop at extreme speeds that u cant even get close to at almost any game, is fun when u are carrying a flag and while every1 carries a railgun.

theres also a bomb mod which is basicly counter-strike with warsow movement system, that could be fun if there was a decent player-base. i mean there are ppl who plays it, but not just on public servers
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