What's with all the imaginary rules?

[rannibunny]

Originally Posted by D3pth

why are there rules that were in place in TFC to make up for the game flaws present in FF, where these flaws were already addressed in the game design? I think that's the whole premise behind how "ridiculous" it is. I even thought the rules were stupid in TFC, but the fact that people tout them as "league" rules in FF when there aren't even any leagues yet, and when there are there will most likely not be most of these rules, is obnoxious at best.

Very well said!
I also think we should throw all our "class-prejudice" overboard and give all of them a new chance... hell, even I think the sniper is usefull, now. I can't say if he's usefull enough to replace a Soldier in a match, but I can't say how a match will look, anyway ^^

I'm still all for banning mid-map deathmatch. It's not what this game is about...

Originally Posted by krokko

So then why does he quote me? Oh well...

Because you are commenting on it when it doesnt exist

"Banning the use of nades to take out SGs is not technically any different from O not killing O,"

One doesnt exist, the other turns the game into a whos the biggest cunt competition.

The people wondering why Offy vs offy and mid maping are not deemed ok in clan play, euro league wise in TFC I dont remember them being banned it was more a gentlemans agrement not to do it. I cant wait for some of you to start clans games and BT and MM, I always enjoy games like this though

[[LoG]eomp]

Yeah stuff like that wasn't actually banned - like lemaltor said, it was more a gentleman's agreement.

Please don't let the rantings of some clan players put you off. If they play on a public server they know goddamn well what to expect, if they want a decent game clan style then they should in a clan server/pickup..

Like I said though, none of that stuff is properly banned. I've played clan style tfc since about 2000/2001 and it is an amazing feeling when you play with a well organised team, and at the same time it's still ace to go on a pub and do whatever the hell you want. It's the way it should be imho.

Ps. For the record I've potshotted other O players a lot while I was playing clan games, killed flag carriers as O, gone O HW, gone pyro/sniper, my clan has run some mad tactics - BUT it does make the game degenerate, and I knew this when I did it :P

[Industrial]

Originally Posted by krokko

You misintrepret my post and then proceed to call me a retard, good job on that one. I never said such a rule was used, it was brought up earlier in the thread and I used it as an example. Why am I even explaining myself to you? If you don't care to discuss this topic then don't click the thread. Maybe you're not into that whole 'opinion' thing going around the world.


LeMaltor, that's most certainly a game flaw, in line with what I said

You should read the first post again. I'm calling the random guy that told the OP not to use nades to kill an sg a retard.

Edit: and I should read the thread until the end before replying to something on a previous page which was already answered correctly

Originally Posted by LeMaltor

Because you are commenting on it when it doesnt exist

"Banning the use of nades to take out SGs is not technically any different from O not killing O,"

One doesnt exist, the other turns the game into a whos the biggest cunt competition.

The people wondering why Offy vs offy and mid maping are not deemed ok in clan play, euro league wise in TFC I dont remember them being banned it was more a gentlemans agrement not to do it. I cant wait for some of you to start clans games and BT and MM, I always enjoy games like this though

Ok, a misunderstanding. Enough of that.

I was commenting on it yes, but I was aware that it didn't exist. The reason I brought it up was that it isn't used because you lot think it's silly! But the point is that it's the same kind of restriction as any of the other "rules" you "impose" on the game. You don't like that non-existent rule, but the thing is that any argument you make against it is purely opiniated, of course, so no rule is dumber than the next technically, because it's all taste.

I'm not against coming up with custom game rules for fun, but, as I've said, I think that if the standard game isn't suited for competitive play then I think the game is broken. What if you had a league where Off vs Off actaully was banned. What if someone broke the rule by misstake? In video games you have the possibility to eliminate such scenarios and I think you should.

Let's say there's an exploit in the game that gets banned. Maybe someone uses it by misstake. That shouldn't be allowed to happen, you shouldn't need rules like that, if the game is broken fix it! If midfield dm is what naturally occurs in FF then I think the devs should provide an ingame incentive to prevent it. Rules or imaginary rules or whatever, it's not what a game needs IMO. You now have a game with an active dev team, make something of it and improve upon TFC now that you've got the chance. If you want the game to grow large, dreamy rules from TFC clan matches isn't what you want, however fond your memories of them are. Sorry

Originally Posted by krokko

Ok, a misunderstanding. Enough of that.

I was commenting on it yes, but I was aware that it didn't exist. The reason I brought it up was that it isn't used because you lot think it's silly! But the point is that it's the same kind of restriction as any of the other "rules" you "impose" on the game. You don't like that non-existent rule, but the thing is that any argument you make against it is purely opiniated, of course, so no rule is dumber than the next technically, because it's all taste.

I'm not against coming up with custom game rules for fun, but, as I've said, I think that if the standard game isn't suited for competitive play then I think the game is broken. What if you had a league where Off vs Off actaully was banned. What if someone broke the rule by misstake? In video games you have the possibility to eliminate such scenarios and I think you should.

Let's say there's an exploit in the game that gets banned. Maybe someone uses it by misstake. That shouldn't be allowed to happen, you shouldn't need rules like that, if the game is broken fix it! If midfield dm is what naturally occurs in FF then I think the devs should provide an ingame incentive to prevent it. Rules or imaginary rules or whatever, it's not what a game needs IMO. You now have a game with an active dev team, make something of it and improve upon TFC now that you've got the chance. If you want the game to grow large, dreamy rules from TFC clan matches isn't what you want, however fond your memories of them are. Sorry

The game isnt broke, well at least not for the reason that you can mm and bt. You can (in the leagues I played in from what I can remember) BT and mid map from the start of a match to the end. All people are trying to point is the effect this will have on the game, and will probably get you kicked from the clan - I have first hand experience of this as I got kicked from SCOT clan for having felted wronged in the first map second map I decided to stand Front door as soldier on some crappy map, with say "I Shot My Load!!! 241" bound to +attack 1

Clan style servers try to emulate the good games rather than the ones that turn not so good. This comes from a collective of people with thousands of games under their belts, the community didnt pick out Joe nOOb and ask him what the rules should be, and surely every game needs rules of some sort, if you want to play FF with no rules it would suck, clan games would be won by whoever got the most players on the server first and all stupid stuff like that

You're saying right there, without rules it would suck, and when you strip away the rules you only have the game. Then what is it that sucks?

How about an sv_restartround command like in CS or Quake? That would fix that problem. If you don't have that then the game DEFINITELY is broken

[Wlv]

I've read the majority of this thread so I wont repeat why these rules are used by clanners.

However, I will say that it's not very good for a new player to jump on a server and get treated in this manor, perhaps they should be passworded, and the one I will be helping to admin, is. H

owever as long as most the clan style servers state they are "CLAN STYLE SERVERS", the rest of you can't really moan and bitch about the rules that have developed over time.

May I add, I can only think of 1 competition in EU TFC that stated you were not allowed to break the aforementioned rules, that was ECTFCL, which I believe was the equivilant of say footballs European Cup, England vs France etc....

This is afterall not TFC though, so we'll see how things develop. If people are going to be to obsessed with making it just like TFC then I think it's going to draw about as big of a crowd as TFC currently does.

[MD44]

What if you had a league where Off vs Off actaully was banned. What if someone broke the rule by misstake?

Let's say there's an exploit in the game that gets banned. Maybe someone uses it by misstake.

In US leagues where there are rules against excessive O v O and against banned exploits, league admins can usually exercise admin discretion in order to come up with a fair ruling. By knowing our clans and their members' 'style of play,' league admins have a very good idea when accidents happen.

As for clan operated servers. In general, clans usually use their league rules as guide lines when operating their servers. One reason being, using league rules on their servers ensures their members will not pick up any 'bad habits' that could get a clan in trouble if those 'bad habits' are used during league match play. If specfic rules are not listed in the 'motd' it may be a good idea to ask about them soon as you join a team. The large majority, imo, of clan operated servers are good places to better your skills and to frag with good people. Unfortunately as in all things, there are always bad apples. Just please don't judge the many by a few.

69.61.121.188:27015 !TFL Fortress Forever! #tfl-ff

The #1 rule is have a little respect.

[PHISH]

Originally Posted by krokko

You're saying right there, without rules it would suck, and when you strip away the rules you only have the game. Then what is it that sucks?

How about an sv_restartround command like in CS or Quake? That would fix that problem. If you don't have that then the game DEFINITELY is broken

ff_restartround is there

Originally Posted by PHISH

ff_restartround is there

Okay didn't know that, haven't had a chance to check it out yet, just got the impression that there wasn't any such command from one of the previous posters

[SizeableSSonic]

"I am a clanner, and therefore I am a superior TF player than you are."

Such bullshit.

I'll the game the way I want to play, not how others want me to play it. I shoot other O all the time, and I chase FC all the way through their base. Cry me a fucking river. I do each and every one of those "Banned" rules, and absolutely no one is going to stop me.

I started with TFC to late to get involved in the clan scene, and was hoping to found a clan myself, or failing that, join another. But not if it's like that with dumb ass rules like this.

[3allz]

Rules are for clan matches and clan style servers. As many people have explained, without them it would be shit (believe us PLEASE! We've tried and tested these rules with 5 years of TFC). If your on a server that says CTF style, or Clan style or whatever, just read the MOTD and try and play the game their way. I personally would much rather play on a clan style server and play the game like a pickup/match and I know im not the only one, so you could imagine its quite annoying when your trying to play this way and you get 'WhenFFWillOut' standing midmap as HW shooting the first thing that moves.

Random public servers (well 24/7 etc) however shouldnt have rules, its all about spamming!

(btw, no throwing nades at SG's is just stupid... dunno where you seen that)

Just break all the rules haha. That's what I'd do.

[SME]

Originally Posted by Zydell

Just follow server rules and do what admins say, ignore what other plays say unless you agree with their reasoning (ask for arguments), be a good puppet and you shall live!

However, if you want to be truly free you must explore the boundaries of rules, argue with admins at all costs when they feel you are doing something wrong, and when other players are crying you must try to piss them off at any cost (points for making them cry/shout). This will give you knowledge and enlighten your mind but it will be at a cost.

Exactly, players have 2 options on my servers, follow the rules or quit. Failure to do either may result in a ban.

Originally Posted by krokko

This is afterall not TFC though, so we'll see how things develop. If people are going to be to obsessed with making it just like TFC then I think it's going to draw about as big of a crowd as TFC currently does.

It's not matter of whether or not it's TFC, of course it's different, it's matter of server admins/owners being able to set whatever rules they want, imo.

Originally Posted by Sharp

Just break all the rules haha. That's what I'd do.

I ban retards for ignoring my servers' rules.

[fireb0rn]

I have fun playing with those sorts of rules. honestly the game isn't very fun without them. FF is the more competitive of the two games. competition means rules. if you want to play a game with as little thought involved as any of you have put into your arguments there's another fortress game I hear is pretty good.

Originally Posted by fireb0rn

I have fun playing with those sorts of rules. honestly the game isn't very fun without them.

If that's the case, you can kiss goodbye to building a new community.

[Edit by Ginger Lord] Personal attacks removed

The no mid fighting is pretty dumb in my opinion. People going through mid are going through mid to get in your base and capture your flag why are you going to not defend people from getting in your base?

Here is how I look at it. Killing an enemy in their own base does very little because of the fast respawn times and close proximity of respawn areas to flags for the most part. Now if there is no fighting in mid there isn't much satisfaction about killing someone in your own base even because you know they're going to be right back in a matter of seconds. If mid is defended you know that the one lucky or skilled guy that managed to get in your base posed a real threat and you took him out before he took your flag, and best of all he won't be right back with near no penalty. As a defender of your base you have done your team a great service. Also the way that flags aren't returned immediately back to your base I don't think is right for an ignore the middle rule set. If you are playing by an ignore middle defense rule set I think the flag needs to be returned as soon as an attacker drops it and it is run over by a defender like most CTF games.

Most of all though it really doesn't matter. A game with mid defense might only have a score of 10 to 0, while a game with no mid defense is 50 to 40 it really doesn't matter if a team plays defense they play defense no matter where it is.

[SME]

Originally Posted by Zer033

The no mid fighting is pretty dumb in my opinion.

The point is, if it's a server rule, it doesn't matter what your opinion of it is, unless you're the admin of that server.

If the rules says you have to run backwards when you have the flag, you better run backwards with it...or quit. There are plenty of free servers, if you don't like the rules on one (or more) of them. Optionally, you could run your own server and set whatever rules YOU like.