Question about round stuff

o_farmer · 01-14-2007, 04:09 PM

I beg everyone to excuse this uber-noob question, but what's the best way to do such stuff in Source?

That's just a simple pipe going through a ceiling the way I used to it in HL1. Everything done manually with the vertex tool. I've seen tunnels and closed pipes done with displacements, can it be used for this purpose too? How much more efficient would displacements be on that example?

Second one, the famous round edges. I'm not a huge fan of them, but sometimes they look good. In HL1 I did them with 4 or 5 vertex-tool'ed blocks, but this looks way smoother. Of course the round thing will get -> func_detail and the backside the usual nodraw, but I wonder if there's a cleaner approach than the "cut-tool-abuse" to this. Or should they also be done with displacements?

I suspect my vertex crap to be totally outdated in HL2 and of no use for round things, a single ramp like the one in THIS would produce insane ammounts of polys to be so smooth. Guess I can't get around learning that Subdivision stuff, eh? I only want to build some small soldier-arenas and funmaps for clan-internal use but they should be fast so everyone has decent fps on them and look a bit like "FF".

I'd really appreciate a good tutorial that explains how to texture displacement rounded stuff. That's completely beyond me.

o_nodnarb · 01-14-2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farmer

I'd really appreciate a good tutorial that explains how to texture displacement rounded stuff. That's completely beyond me.

as would I

o_nezumi · 01-14-2007, 04:28 PM

The best way to make brush-based curves in source hasn't really changed.

The first screenshot looks good. You can make a pipe like that out of displacements, although it's usually probably best to make it out of brushes if you can see the inside, outside and end surfaces.

In the second screenshot, I'd pull the back vertex of all those triangles into the corner just so you don't have to put nodraw on as many faces.

Making things out of displacements just takes some practice. It's handy to have a template of what you wanted to make made of brushes, then wrap the displacement around that. Uncheck 'spatial' then nudge all the verticies around by 1 unit untill they're in place. OR if you know how far you want the point on the displacement to move by looking at your template and grid, set the 'distance' to that ammount and move the point all at once. This is handy because a lot of the time you're trying to move verticies by exact ammounts it will move twice when you only click once.

o__mj_ · 01-15-2007, 11:45 AM

http://www.snarkpit.net/editing.php?...ame=HL2&id=162

o_nezumi · 01-15-2007, 06:42 PM

DO NOT listen to that tutorial. It's got it all wrong. You'll wind up with WAY more polies than you'll need.

o_bumgravy · 01-15-2007, 09:01 PM

In reply to first post, I would chop the end off of the pipe that sticks past the surface and make it func_detail, and perhaps hint brush over the hole.

Apart from that I understand this to be the best way of brush mapping.

o_farmer · 01-15-2007, 10:20 PM

Thanks for all your answers, good to hear that the basic brushwork-rules haven't changed that much. The other things, like physics, displacements, lightning are already 'nuff fun to learn

.

Btw. for the displacement-texturing I found a tutorial by trepid jesse on Snarkpit:
http://www.snarkpit.net/editing.php?...ame=HL2&id=174

o__mj_ · 01-16-2007, 01:11 PM

rah rah

trepid_jesse · 01-17-2007, 02:50 AM

Yeah, that shit is fairly outdated. We don't use that method anymore as it's too time consuming making all that shit with brushes.

Aside from that, it isn't all that great because Hammer has shitty precision when you go to making shit like that with brushes so you end up with shitty guide brushes anyway. It also doesn't talk about how you should create your displacement brushes because, at the time, we had really just figured that shit out and figured we'd let other people know as well -- there were still quite a few things we didn't know at the time of writing that tutorial.

For cz2 we ended up using this other way that's a lot faster and easier. It's a method that allows for more accurate representation of curved shit. It's a way that eliminates a fucking shitload of useless, potentially fucked-up, guide brushes.

Now... now I would only suggest you use that tutorial to help you understand that displacements can be really fucking useful for other shit cause that shit is too old and wrong to be viewed as anything incredibly useful.

Reading that tutorial now makes me want to go back and strangle myself, but yeah.. today it's got stupidity all up in that shit.

o_a boojum snark · 01-17-2007, 04:39 AM

That post reinforces my initial thoughts when I read the tutorial, those being: "...wth? This is written by jesse? Nowai, it's too coherent and has no expletives."

trepid_jesse · 01-17-2007, 05:24 AM

If I actually talked liked that, I'd have kick my own ass.

Yelling shit at kids in Blockbuster is way more fun.

o_bumgravy · 01-17-2007, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trepid_jesse

Reading that tutorial now makes me want to go back and strangle myself, but yeah.. today it's got stupidity all up in that shit.

I'm sure writing a new tutorial would have a much better cathartic effect

o_farmer · 01-17-2007, 06:40 PM

>t's a method that allows for more accurate representation of curved shit.
May I beg you for a slight hint on how this method works?
All I could do in exchange is putting "TREPID'S RULE" in my server-MOTD or name

.

o_sta_sirtiger · 01-17-2007, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BumGravy

I'm sure writing a new tutorial would have a much better cathartic effect

Ugh, fucking yea...

Jesse, it doesn't really help us to know "that shit is fucking fucking old don't use that fucking fucking way!" Instead of leaving us in the same position as we were (not knowing shit about curved/hollow curve displacements [although I have the basic understanding and actually have managed to do some, not many, after 10000 attempts]), why not write another tutorial that ACTUALLY explains step by step (with pictures) on how to do that shit (not like the others users who just tell you....oh, unspatial and move shit....okay?) Get writing and contribute your knowledge of displacements (since you seem to talk about their wonders so much

).

Displacement Magic!

o_nodnarb · 01-17-2007, 07:18 PM

you forgot "PLEASE"

o_nezumi · 01-18-2007, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STA_SirTiger

(not like the others users who just tell you....oh, unspatial and move shit....okay?)

That's how it works!

o_sta_sirtiger · 01-18-2007, 03:58 AM

Do a tutorial on it? Possibly a video one (very easy using that program which records your pc).

PleaSe!

[ perhaps do an arch..... ) AND ( but not only one sided, perhaps 2, top and it's actual geometry ]

01-14-2007, 04:09 PM	#1
o_farmer Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Question about round stuff I beg everyone to excuse this uber-noob question, but what's the best way to do such stuff in Source? That's just a simple pipe going through a ceiling the way I used to it in HL1. Everything done manually with the vertex tool. I've seen tunnels and closed pipes done with displacements, can it be used for this purpose too? How much more efficient would displacements be on that example? Second one, the famous round edges. I'm not a huge fan of them, but sometimes they look good. In HL1 I did them with 4 or 5 vertex-tool'ed blocks, but this looks way smoother. Of course the round thing will get -> func_detail and the backside the usual nodraw, but I wonder if there's a cleaner approach than the "cut-tool-abuse" to this. Or should they also be done with displacements? I suspect my vertex crap to be totally outdated in HL2 and of no use for round things, a single ramp like the one in THIS would produce insane ammounts of polys to be so smooth. Guess I can't get around learning that Subdivision stuff, eh? I only want to build some small soldier-arenas and funmaps for clan-internal use but they should be fast so everyone has decent fps on them and look a bit like "FF". I'd really appreciate a good tutorial that explains how to texture displacement rounded stuff. That's completely beyond me.

01-15-2007, 10:20 PM	#7
o_farmer Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Thanks for all your answers, good to hear that the basic brushwork-rules haven't changed that much. The other things, like physics, displacements, lightning are already 'nuff fun to learn . Btw. for the displacement-texturing I found a tutorial by trepid jesse on Snarkpit: http://www.snarkpit.net/editing.php?...ame=HL2&id=174 Last edited by o_farmer; 01-15-2007 at 10:28 PM.

01-17-2007, 02:50 AM	#9
trepid_jesse Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Texas Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Yeah, that shit is fairly outdated. We don't use that method anymore as it's too time consuming making all that shit with brushes. Aside from that, it isn't all that great because Hammer has shitty precision when you go to making shit like that with brushes so you end up with shitty guide brushes anyway. It also doesn't talk about how you should create your displacement brushes because, at the time, we had really just figured that shit out and figured we'd let other people know as well -- there were still quite a few things we didn't know at the time of writing that tutorial. For cz2 we ended up using this other way that's a lot faster and easier. It's a method that allows for more accurate representation of curved shit. It's a way that eliminates a fucking shitload of useless, potentially fucked-up, guide brushes. Now... now I would only suggest you use that tutorial to help you understand that displacements can be really fucking useful for other shit cause that shit is too old and wrong to be viewed as anything incredibly useful. Reading that tutorial now makes me want to go back and strangle myself, but yeah.. today it's got stupidity all up in that shit. __________________ Support FF: Trepid, what?

01-17-2007, 05:24 AM	#11
trepid_jesse Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Texas Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	If I actually talked liked that, I'd have kick my own ass. Yelling shit at kids in Blockbuster is way more fun. __________________ Support FF: Trepid, what?

01-14-2007, 04:28 PM	#3
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	The best way to make brush-based curves in source hasn't really changed. The first screenshot looks good. You can make a pipe like that out of displacements, although it's usually probably best to make it out of brushes if you can see the inside, outside and end surfaces. In the second screenshot, I'd pull the back vertex of all those triangles into the corner just so you don't have to put nodraw on as many faces. Making things out of displacements just takes some practice. It's handy to have a template of what you wanted to make made of brushes, then wrap the displacement around that. Uncheck 'spatial' then nudge all the verticies around by 1 unit untill they're in place. OR if you know how far you want the point on the displacement to move by looking at your template and grid, set the 'distance' to that ammount and move the point all at once. This is handy because a lot of the time you're trying to move verticies by exact ammounts it will move twice when you only click once.

01-15-2007, 11:45 AM	#4
o__mj_ Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	http://www.snarkpit.net/editing.php?...ame=HL2&id=162

01-15-2007, 06:42 PM	#5
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	DO NOT listen to that tutorial. It's got it all wrong. You'll wind up with WAY more polies than you'll need.

01-15-2007, 09:01 PM	#6
o_bumgravy Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	In reply to first post, I would chop the end off of the pipe that sticks past the surface and make it func_detail, and perhaps hint brush over the hole. Apart from that I understand this to be the best way of brush mapping.

01-16-2007, 01:11 PM	#8
o__mj_ Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	rah rah

01-17-2007, 04:39 AM	#10
o_a boojum snark Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Orion Arm Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	That post reinforces my initial thoughts when I read the tutorial, those being: "...wth? This is written by jesse? Nowai, it's too coherent and has no expletives."

01-17-2007, 06:40 PM	#13
o_farmer Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	>t's a method that allows for more accurate representation of curved shit. May I beg you for a slight hint on how this method works? All I could do in exchange is putting "TREPID'S RULE" in my server-MOTD or name .

01-17-2007, 07:18 PM	#15
o_nodnarb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Austin, Texas Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	you forgot "PLEASE"

01-18-2007, 03:58 AM	#17
o_sta_sirtiger Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas, THE USA!!! Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Do a tutorial on it? Possibly a video one (very easy using that program which records your pc). PleaSe! [ perhaps do an arch..... ) AND ( but not only one sided, perhaps 2, top and it's actual geometry ]

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