Already dead?

[df`]

Well, from the last couple days of steam stats it seems like the bleeding has mostly stopped, the game is consistently peaking each day in the 300s for concurrent players, so we can gather that there's a small but significant number of supporters who probably aren't going anywhere at the moment. With any luck, 1.1 will fix most of the flaws and leave the game much more solid, giving curious players who give it a shot more of a reason to stick around. An official map pack release wouldn't hurt, either.

[lollerskates]

I agree that ff_well is too cramped (and ff_cz2 sucks ass), but cdotter doesn't seem to understand that this is TEAM Fortress. Why should a medic get past a well-positioned sentry gun, or be able to kill a hwguy?

As for nailing a sentry gun, it's very easy if there isn't an engineer next to it. They don't have as much range as cdotter claims.

Originally Posted by Nest

The most boring aspect of FF as a veteran TFC player was playing the same maps again that we'd played for years before. It would've been a lot more fun for me personally if the initial release came with brand new fresh maps to learn (Aardvark anyone?), perhaps with a classic map pack coming along in a future patch.

That's just my personal view and I have no idea if it is shared by others.

All the servers just run ff_well or dustbowl. A few maps are played occasionally and some aren't played at all. I haven't seen ff_hunted anywhere, even once. I am quite sick of well.

[SME]

Originally Posted by lollerskates

I agree that ff_well is too cramped (and ff_cz2 sucks ass), but cdotter doesn't seem to understand that this is TEAM Fortress. Why should a medic get past a well-positioned sentry gun, or be able to kill a hwguy?

As for nailing a sentry gun, it's very easy if there isn't an engineer next to it. They don't have as much range as cdotter claims.


All the servers just run ff_well or dustbowl. A few maps are played occasionally and some aren't played at all. I haven't seen ff_hunted anywhere, even once. I am quite sick of well.

I've gotten past SG's and killed HWG's as medic. Not easily, not every time but I have. :P

Imagine...

I run hunted in my server's mapcycle, I've seen it full sometimes. YMMV.

[drZauis]

thats because hunteds gameplay is totally different now. i always find aardvark servers have people in them. Its my favorite map currently.

Sad really, last night the only local populated server had 4 players in it, still had a sniper war which was fun for a while, keep thinking if only this game game out 6 months ago it would have been better...

[v3rtigo]

I'm definately getting tired of ff_well and yes, it is a bit too small. My favorite map is probably crossover, a map I used to see alot, but I haven't seen any server run it lately, not in europe anyway.

The looks of FF imply that it's a serious game, while it hardly is in terms of realism. I think this creates a confusing effect for new players because it's doesn't really match. TF2 is a bit too much, but if you look closely at TFC, the outdated graphics/models/physics and whatnot add alot to the 'lol'-factor when something ridiculous happens. The custom models would also sometimes add to the humor factor.

Currently, FF looks like it's for hardcore clanners, because it appears so grim, mainly due to the dark and realistic nature of the textures (both maps and players). Compare ff_well to aardvark and you'll see what I mean. The fact that the game somewhat tries to be realistic (rag dolls, physics, weapons, sounds) while it's gameplay is not, makes it somewhat less appealing or 'fake'.

For instance, look at the HWguy, in TFC he looks like some dumbass fatty that's been using too much steroïds while the spy looks like some robot ninja from the future. Not only the model, but also the animations contribute to this feeling. The engineer looks badass and the scout... I don't know, but his looks fit his role in the game if you know what I mean. In FF, they look way too serious IMO with realistic weapons, models and animations.

In terms of gameplay, FF deserves alot more popularity than it does now, but it's appearance could use some work I think.

Anyone care to discuss this view?

[n3m]

Originally Posted by cdotter

Look at all the controversy my one post made!

I still believe it is dying...because it is. Nearly all the maps clash with the game play style. Take ff_well for example: the yard is big and open, okay that's good. The game is fast paced and concs plus skimming = you're a fucking rocket. You conc across the yard and get through the front door, and...what the fuck? Why is the ceiling like 1.25 players high? Why is it so low? A single hw can lock down the front door like it's nothing at all because there's no where to go. You might get lucky and skim past him and get into the ramp room, but if there's someone in there you're fucked too because there's nowhere to go. ff_well is way, way too cramped inside the bases. The yard is fine but why is the inside so small?

And, of course, the only map that gets played is ff_well. Which is a shame, because for the most part ff_aardvark is a good map. With the ramp + concs a scout can get up enough speed to skim all the way to the flag then conc out of the flag room and down the ramp without stopping for more than a few seconds. Why aren't all the maps like this? Crossover is another shitty map...the yard and basement are huge, but all the hallways are tiny. The hallway between the top spawn and the flag cap out front is barely wide enough for one player. Why is there such a small choke point? Why are the map ceilings so low on cz2? Why is everything so narrow in cz2? How did this get past "beta testing"?

Now for the classes...hw is way overpowered. A hw with half a brain can pretty much shut down offense. The overheating thing is bullshit, how did it even get past the beta testing? Clicking really fast = any offense class is dead within a second or two. And conc aim is just like it is in TFC (easy). I thought there was supposed to be random conc like in ETF?

Engineer is also way too powerful. The rail gun is supposed to be a weak piece of shit. Why is it so powerful now? Not only does the engineer get an overpowered automated gun, but now he gets a rail gun that can do some damage AND a super shotgun, frag grenades, and emp grenades? And why is the sg so overpowered? It used to be a medic could crouch down just barely seeing the sg and nail gun it. Now the sg locks on to you instantly even if it can barely see you. And the range on it is ridiculous. I've been killed on the other side of the yard on ff_well by a yard sg.

The pyro's flamethrower is way overpowered too. Not only does it do way too much damage but the flame pattern is huge. You can never tell where the pyro is behind the flames because the pattern is three times as wide as the pyro and the flame holds in the air for a good second or two.

With engineer, pyro, and hw being overpowered, the offense classes are fucked. Scout can be really fast (only if the map permits...which means ff_aardvark) but a half decent hw/pyro/engineer can fuck up a scout like nothing. Medic can do some damage to a pyro with the grenades and shotgun, but a medic vs sg + engineer or medic vs hw = no contest, the medic always loses. The sg will kill the medic way before he gets close enough to nail gun or toss grenades, and the hw's ac will tear him up before he gets within grenade distance.

About the only balanced classes are sniper and demoman. It took me a while to get used to the new sniping but it's not that bad. The AR isn't horribly overpowered and the sniper rifle does a good amount of damage. The only thing I'd change is make the charging a little faster...maybe 75% of what it is now.

The demo man is pretty much perfect. The pipes all do good damage and they launch pretty nice...air shots with blue pipes are easy. The only thing that needs to be fixed is the detpack bug.

Honestly, you guys wonder why this game is doing so poorly? Nearly all the maps clash with the gameplay, and the ones that don't no one plays. The defense classes are way too overpowered, and as you all know barely anyone on public servers play offense. And now those that DO play offense are completely fucked because defense is way overpowered. Between the maps and the balance issues, I'm surprised the few servers that do have players are still around.

You claim this ^^ has points to it but the only thing I got from it is the fact you clearly have no fucking clue how to play offence. Engie overpowered?? Are you fucking mad the SGs lock time is slower then TFC, you can actually ignore them on most maps if you have your movement down and are fast enough. Pyro overpowered? Get a clue, its balanced. Pyros are a joke to take down, they have no range at all.

And about the map comments like ff_well, by the sounds of it you want a map to be made of 1 big fucking long ramp with the flag at the top so you can slide in as scout and back out every run. Get a clue, maps need to be varied. Choke points are essential, you say its too hard for offence classes when the game is actually the complete opposite. If you were anyway decent at playing medic / scout you'd realise that if you spent 10 mins on a clan style server. Medic is the most versatile class in the game. Supershotgun, decent armour, amazing speed, concs and frag grenades. If any class is overpowered its medic. So next time you try and claim a game is dead due to balance issues and map flaws get a fucking clue.

[drtom]

this game bestter be good defag i just bought half life 2 !!!

[groovyf]

drtom!

[Dr.Uudge]

Originally Posted by v3rtigo

I'm definately getting tired of ff_well and yes, it is a bit too small. My favorite map is probably crossover, a map I used to see alot, but I haven't seen any server run it lately, not in europe anyway.

The looks of FF imply that it's a serious game, while it hardly is in terms of realism. I think this creates a confusing effect for new players because it's doesn't really match. TF2 is a bit too much, but if you look closely at TFC, the outdated graphics/models/physics and whatnot add alot to the 'lol'-factor when something ridiculous happens. The custom models would also sometimes add to the humor factor.

Currently, FF looks like it's for hardcore clanners, because it appears so grim, mainly due to the dark and realistic nature of the textures (both maps and players). Compare ff_well to aardvark and you'll see what I mean. The fact that the game somewhat tries to be realistic (rag dolls, physics, weapons, sounds) while it's gameplay is not, makes it somewhat less appealing or 'fake'.

For instance, look at the HWguy, in TFC he looks like some dumbass fatty that's been using too much steroïds while the spy looks like some robot ninja from the future. Not only the model, but also the animations contribute to this feeling. The engineer looks badass and the scout... I don't know, but his looks fit his role in the game if you know what I mean. In FF, they look way too serious IMO with realistic weapons, models and animations.

In terms of gameplay, FF deserves alot more popularity than it does now, but it's appearance could use some work I think.

Anyone care to discuss this view?

I think the dev team are looking for animators/art...guys...who do...art things with mods.

I do agree though, the grim look/texture/lighting in some of the maps gives a feeling of seriousness, then when you get gibbed it's like wtf...?

Perhaps in the next patch, some tracer-style bullets can be added as default like the hwguy in this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=3fWfGNd2L1w
along with other minute detail stuff that enhance the visuals?

[Credge]

Originally Posted by Dr.Uudge

I do agree though, the grim look/texture/lighting in some of the maps gives a feeling of seriousness, then when you get gibbed it's like wtf...?

Peoples limbs do tend to fly off when rockets or large caliber weaponry hits them.

[drtom]

groovy!!

ok after 5 or 10 minutes there are strange invisible sgs? also when you shoot an sg they dont glow? or was that just me being blind? also im sure sgs never used to be able to shoot you if you were underwater and they were above?
buh, plus when i turn for bhops my player slips around in the air a bit like on quake or something, is all this just me?

plus its too dark!!

otherwise it seems liek its gonna be quite good!

[PussyHunter]

tommos = noob :P

[n3m]

Originally Posted by drtom

groovy!!

ok after 5 or 10 minutes there are strange invisible sgs? also when you shoot an sg they dont glow? or was that just me being blind? also im sure sgs never used to be able to shoot you if you were underwater and they were above?
buh, plus when i turn for bhops my player slips around in the air a bit like on quake or something, is all this just me?

plus its too dark!!

otherwise it seems liek its gonna be quite good!

Invisible SGs are map bugs, engies can place them in curved walls.
SGs do indeed glow when ya shoot em.
SGs could shoot you underwater in TFC too when they were above.
Air control when bunnyhopping is pretty much exactly the same.
I think its all just you.

[drtom]

pff! ok well it feels laggy and jerky but thats probably just my computer i just wish i could play something other than well!

[LouDog]

Vote40 is the solution to this... first one who attacks their map's door relentlessly gets to play their map.

[mistermojo]

if you guys release a patch that adds more good maps (dropdown, congestus, etc), and fixes a lot of bugs, I'm sur emany people will come back

in a couple of weeks a lot more are going to be bored with TF2, especially if Valve doesn't add anything when the game officially comes out

[Hammock]

I agree with the dark textures of many of the maps. As well I'm getting sick of "Well" I leave a server usually when it comes on. It's too small imo. The darkness gets to me too. Sometimes I increase the contrast brightness of my monitor to try and compensate.

This is why I love that aardvark map (amung other reasons) it's currently my favorite map. It's soo bright and colorfull, many of these new maps being made by players are following the same suite as the darkness in all these prepackaged maps. Bring back the bright cheerfull happy colors, there's too many dark-netrual toned colors. It plays a psychological effect on the players, and brighter colors are easier on the eyes. I go bug-eyed after extended jaunts of squinting to try and see things in the darkness.

Cheers,
Hammock

[SoBe Green]

Originally Posted by mistermojo

if you guys release a patch that adds more good maps (dropdown, congestus, etc), and fixes a lot of bugs, I'm sur emany people will come back

in a couple of weeks a lot more are going to be bored with TF2, especially if Valve doesn't add anything when the game officially comes out

Don't forget a couple conc maps!

Right now I'm pretty bored with both games. TF2 is fun but there is hardly a variety of maps to play on. The only thing putting a downer on me with FF is the bugs like voice and kills not registering. FF is definitely the more fun game in the long run I just hope it stays alive.

[DoC]

I definately like the brighter maps.... ditch the darkness, it sucks. Better maps will make me more interested. Took me about three weeks of play to get a little bored with it, took me 3 maps of TF2, lol.