70% Complete.

[o_redux]

Wait a second, people actually read PC Gamer?

[o_nuk3m]

i love the subtitled This is team fortress, too. almost as they are punning the fact that this is the true remake versus TF2

[mervaka]

they should have said "this is ACTUALLY team fortress, too!"

[o_ihmhi]

In case anyone is blind or otherwise impaired, here is the full text of the article. Now you all can quote portions of it and argue about the definition of "is".

Fortress Forever
This is Team Fortress, Too
MOD NEWS | Bringing the team shooter up to date in the Source Engine

Team Fortress might be all over the gaming headlines again now that Valve are finally remaking it, but there's a hard core of fans who had never forgotten (and indeed, never stopped playing) that great team-based, Half-Life-based multiplayer combat game in the first place. Some of those fans have elected to remake the original game in the Source engine, with just a few tricks, tweaks and miniguns of their own devising.

All the original maps will be recreated along with the original game modes of capture-the-flag, escort-the-VIP, territory control and so on. But the levels are being re-imagined, adding layers of backstory and detail to the basic forms of the originals: Dustbowl is an abandoned Western town where the Goldrush has been and gone and left the perfect CTF setting, with smelting factories and a whorehouse. Hunted is a mishmash of factories and open spaces to dominate.

Character classes remain within their classic templates to keep the game's unique hook; you get a choice of Scout, Sniper, Soldier, Demoman, Medic, HWGuy, Pyro, Spy, and Engineer, each with a specific roll to fulfill. It's here that TF's addictive personality takes hold, as you master a character class and use the unique skills to blend into the team. A Spy can take on any of the appearance of the enemy, but is relatively weak from a distance. HWGuy's gun could mow down an elephant hiding behind a hippo, but his slow aiming and maneuvering are a major drag. The classes slot together, creating a well balanced network of support and attack. Anyone looking for something more than just shooting will find Fortress Forever a welcoming and attractive challenge.

Some controversial aspects of the game, such as the manner of gaming via 'bunny-hopping', will be included, but with a certain amount of constraint. It goes to show that the team are versed enough in the game to know what works and what doesn't. They're passionate fans, and keen to deliver a game that will please old-timers but also make it an experience that players newer to the Fortress dynamic will be comfortable with.

Imagine spending years working on a mod that'll give everyone the modern version of the game they want. Now imagine that when you're nearing the end of your development, Valve tell everyone that they're doing the same thing. Most people would throw the towel in right there, but Fortress Forever is looking too strong to be lost to fate. Let's hope this one makes it.

Now if you will excuse me, I will be tearing a few portions of this article a "new one", as it were.

A Spy can take on any of the appearance of the enemy, but is relatively weak from a distance.

Weak at a distance? Well Hell, he can not knife you for sure, but he damn well can spam nades and blast his super shotty. Try and run from a spy who still has grenades in his reserve and see how far you get if you are anything other than Soldier or HWGuy.

HWGuy's gun could mow down an elephant hiding behind a hippo, but his slow aiming and maneuvering are a major drag.

Slow maneuvering I will buy. But slow aiming? Aiming is tied to the mouse sensitivity. I twitch my mouse a little bit and MY HWGuy spins around like Michael Jackson in concert.

The classes slot together, creating a well balanced network of support and attack.

When was the last time you played on a team that was a "well balanced network of support and attack"? Defense is usually the heavier classes and Engi, offense is usually Medic, sometimes Scout, and rarely Spy, Solly, etc. Pyros are almost never used except for those insane people who insist on mastering the class and then torturing us with that. And where does that Sniper fit into this network? He shoots... other snipers, most of the time. Maybe he will pick off incoming defenders. But the only time the sniper defends the flag is when he picks off the poor bastard Scout who is trying to run away with it in the yard. Well balanced my ass. Actually, my ass really is not that well balanced, my left cheek is a little bigger.

Some controversial aspects of the game, such as the manner of gaming via 'bunny-hopping', will be included, but with a certain amount of constraint.

Oh, so BHOP does not have constraint now? Perhaps this individual has done his research back to TFC's early days of uncapped BHOP. Or maybe this is just another turd in the giant flow of diarrhea flowing from his fingers and into his computer (probably a P.O.S. Dell).

...and keen to deliver a game that will please old-timers...

Little do you know it, but there will be a built-in swear filter to appease the demands of [O-T].*

Caption, Top-Left Picture
The Pyro is ideal as a defensive unit. Filling a corridor with great jets of flames is the best way to keep people from getting that flag.

The Pyro ideal as a defensive unit? The last I remember a Pyro on defense, he ran around in the Ramp Room in 2fort trying to set people on fire and getting owned. Fill a corridor with "great jets of flames"? Yeah, see how well that works out when a nade gets tossed through the flames and you get blown to kibbles and shits. And of all the things to leak out of this guy's ass and end up on the keyboard, this is the "best way to keep people from getting that flag"? Funny, I thought the best way was a layered defense with medium-to-heavy classes running a coordinated defense. Or, ya know, just filling up the FR with SGs and pipe-trapping the shit out of the flag.

Caption, Bottom-Left Picture
But then there's the Heavy Weapon dude. OK, so he might need to spool up the gun, but once he get's going, he's lethal.

Yeah, except a good lot of HWGuy players continually spin the gun to reduce the spool up time. And of course he neglects to mention how practically useless the AC is after 20 or so meters of distance. Hey, I know! I can make two sentences less retarded with one simple move:

But then there's the Heavy Weapon dude. OK, so he might need to spool up the gun, but once he get's going, he's lethal but relatively weak from a distance.

My brain hurts less already!

Caption, Right Picture
These levels will look familiar to anyone who has spent some time in Team Fortress.

Really now? We have Hunted in the picture to the right, Well in the picture to the bottom left, and I honestly do not know what the top-left one is. Shutdown? Iunno, I have not played that great a variety of maps to memorize every little corner of them.

But look at the picture, out of all of them, he decides to put the caption "these levels will look familiar" on: Hunted? You go into a pub and ask people what Hunted is, and a lot of these people have no idea what the Hell that is. They think it has something to do with Turok and they probably will not shut up about how awesome that game is. Maybe he should have included a picture of a map with that caption that a lot of people actually know, like say, rock2? Maybe Well?

...doesn't... ...they're... ...let's...

I see someone slept through the part of his creative writing class where they learned that using contractions in formal writing is unacceptable. And this person is supposedly a professional writer?

And a great job he did on his research, too. I bet it took him a whole hour.





* j/k. I love [O-T]. Well... except for that guy who left to start oldgeezersandbroads.

[Circuitous]

Except that the class balance will be more even in FF, he wanted to emphasize the restraint (since many would assume uncapped bhop), they weren't referring to the clan of the same name, the Pyro's power is being tweaked and he may actually become useful, they're trying to present the HWGuy's counter to his power to a crowd that probably doesn't know what they're talking about, Hunted is awesome, and it's not meant to be a formal write-up, I agree completely.

[o_d3pth charge]

Yeah.. I'm not sure what you are trying to get at with your post imhi. Most of the stuff you brought up was fine and seemed more like nitpicking to me, or just misinterpreted.

[o_ihmhi]

Originally Posted by Circuitous

Except that the class balance will be more even in FF

I sure hope it will, but I doubt that on a team of say, 13, you will see one of every class. There will still be the TFC effect of perceived uselessness of certain classes in certain situations, like snipers in clan matches. As effective as they may be with the right person behind the keyboard, a lot of clanners I have spoken with have all told me the same thing: with rare exception, sniper in a clan match is a waste of a slot.

Originally Posted by Circuitous

he wanted to emphasize the restraint (since many would assume uncapped bhop)

Why would many assumed uncapped bhop? If anything, the complete debacle of uncapped bhop (soldiers being able to bhop into their own rockets, HWs being able to bhop as fast as a Scout... while shooting) would make people assume that it would be capped.

Originally Posted by Circuitous

they weren't referring to the clan of the same name

I would think that for someone who writes so many posts he would learn a little bit about reading between the lines and seeing that that was a joke.

Originally Posted by Circuitous

the Pyro's power is being tweaked and he may actually become useful

Probably. In the right hands a Pyro is a pain in the ass; the Pyro's best weapon is confusion. All you see is fire and an occasional glimpse of that maniac running circles around you. IC, Napalm, Flamethrower, repeat.

Originally Posted by Circuitous

they're trying to present the HWGuy's counter to his power to a crowd that probably doesn't know what they're talking about

I just do not see how anyone who had any knowledge whatsoever of first person shooters would state that the HW actually turns slow. If this person spent any time in the game I think it may have dawned on him that all classes turn at the same speeds; they run at slower paces, not turn. And of course if you turn up your mouse sensitivity, they turn even faster.

And if this crowd you speak of doesn't know what they are talking about, then how would they even know about uncapped BHOP in the first place? Or how would they know what map hunted is?

Originally Posted by Circuitous

Hunted is awesome

I am sure it is, but that does not change the fact that it is woefully unplayed by so many people.

I personally love the map, and I am looking forward to playing a few dozen good rounds of it when FF comes out (and, of course, the other maps as well). I just hope I can run FF in Super-Low-One-Legged-Hobo-Joe Resolution, which is basically cell phone resolution with four colors.

It will look like Pong with shotguns.

Originally Posted by Circuitous

and it's not meant to be a formal write-up, I agree completely.

Well I suppose this is not a letter to the President of Anvilania, but this is supposedly a professional writer working for a professional magazine. I suppose that with all them "young peoples" and their "dudes" and "kewls" that basic writing skills are going down the drain.

Let me rephrase: you are not supposed to use contractions in any writing except for the purposes of illustrating speech, as in "Tom said, 'Let's go to the store'."

Originally Posted by D3pth Charge

Yeah.. I'm not sure what you are trying to get at with your post imhi. Most of the stuff you brought up was fine and seemed more like nitpicking to me, or just misinterpreted.

Yeah, I was nitpicking. I am just one of those people who believe in journalist ethics. You know, researching a subject before you write about it? If I had never played TFC and I were going to be writing an article for a mod that is supposed to be an updated version of it, I would have put down the $5 and spent some time in the game itself as well as learned a bit about the communities and the history.

The Devil is in the details; those little things I "nitpicked" about tell me that the writer has either done just enough research to make a decent article or he has dumbed it down to such a degree where the layman can understand it, effectively sacrificing the nuances of the gameplay (the "nits", if you were, that I had "picked").

[mervaka]

can i also add your comparisons were with TFC, and not FF.

[o_[cjff]vultureman]

Originally Posted by Ihmhi

I see someone slept through the part of his creative writing class where they learned that using contractions in formal writing is unacceptable. And this person is supposedly a professional writer?

You've got to be kidding me. The IDIOT that made up that so-called rule was a fool. If you're a professional writer, you write what your audience will understand. If NOT using contractions makes your text too 'wordy-gay' (as my english teacher put it), then don't do it. Use contractions when it doesn't sound right the other way.

As for the article, getting the word out about FF is always good.

See if you can get ahold of PCGamer and mention to them that you'd like an article when the mod is done, and done by someone from PCGamer instead of some hired guy who doesn't contact the right people.

[o_swampthing]

lols, way too much to read.

[o_shade]

Balance depends not only on your personal style of play, but those you play with as well.

For instance, get a good Pyro and you can really make attackers sad. Yea, the Pyro might not get a landslide of kills, but done strategically he can blind incoming attackers and leave them wide open to SGs and other forms of retaliation. If you can get them into enemy sniper positions that can be fun too, 'cause snipers *hate* to be set on fire Me, I apparently don't understand Pyros, can't play them for shit.

Snipers in their standard roles tend to neutralize each other, which is of minimal but still necessary use. On the other hand, defending or attacking the flag itself can be pretty interesting if the level supports it. Snipers take out SGs quite well, for instance, if the Engie isn't careful and leaves too much line of sight. Also, good for harrassing the enemy on coordinated attacks. Don't have to have a full charge for a leg shot, which can buy time for the flag runner.

Medics as flag runners is the norm, but again, there is plenty of range to do other things. Sometimes I don't even go for the flag, I just run around the enemy base spreading the love and concing folks around to make a hole for the flag runner. The three servers I used to play on during the peak of TFC's popularity were frequented by decently ranked clans, and after a while it got to the point that whenever I logged in on one team, the other team immediately switched two others to Medic. My best game was 130 kills in 30 minutes, no captures. Not bad for a Medic When I was feeling lazy I would follow HWG attackers and keep 'em alive as long as I could. The better HWGs could stay alive a *very* respectable amount of time, until the defense coordinated against them.

There are always ways to milk extra entertainment out of every class, that is one of the biggest strengths of Team Fortress, in my oppinion. One of my favorite evil past times is sleeping folks in long underwater tunnels. Sure, doesn't come up much, but it is seriously fun! I once drowned a spy in the water tunnel in Crossover 2, and then got the pleasure of heading over to his desk after the match and mocking him Yea, as I have mentioned before, we play at work during lunch

As for writing, I believe it was Webster who said that it is the population that defines language, not the dictionary. This is equally true with writing styles. It isn't about following the rules so much as it is about communicating an idea in the most efficient and effective way possible. If I am in Louisianna then I would write significantly different than if I am writing in Vancouver, BC.

Of course, doesn't make a lot of difference in my case, I suck at writing anyway >:- )

[o_ihmhi]

Originally Posted by shade

As for writing, I believe it was Webster who said that it is the population that defines language, not the dictionary. This is equally true with writing styles. It isn't about following the rules so much as it is about communicating an idea in the most efficient and effective way possible. If I am in Louisianna then I would write significantly different than if I am writing in Vancouver, BC.

Right, so "ain't" is a legitimate word in the world of professional writing because so many people use it, then?

[o_uncle-argon]

Of course it's a 'legitimate word' in the world of 'professional writing'. The quality of writing isn't measured by the extent to which it conforms to linguistic 'rules'; the extent to which it sucesfully draws responses from reader is far more important. If this means drawing from a vocabularly traditionaly inapropriate for formal writing, then so be it. Whats the problem?

This is a computer game magazine. It's not an academic article or a formal letter. As far as I'm concerned, the language he uses is appropriate for the context in which it is presented. In fact, not using contractions might seem awkward for an article like this. People don't read a magazine like PC Gamer for intellectual debate or in depth analysis; it's basically a light entertainment magazine about video games. It's main aim is to entertain people. Because of this I assume it adopts a house style which is a little more relaxed and informal. There's nothing wrong with that at all.

I'm not saying that it's a particularly great article, but it's by no means as bad as you're saying. It's good publicity for the mod and we should thank the people who wrote and published it. Having said all that, I'll happily admit that he is a little slack with his research in places and he does get a number of things in the article kind of wrong..

[o_vlad_drac]

Originally Posted by df`

Nice to see that thousands of PC Gamer readers will try to come to the FF website, only to be redirected to an ad site, and think that the mod folded.

I find it amazing that someone actually took the time and money to register the domain just to put up some lame ads that no one could possibly find interesting.

hey guys, last week i found an ad-site under this URL, this week it's not here.. did it fold or something?

thanks

vlad

[o_nodnarb]

it still is an ad site

[o_[cjff]vultureman]

maybe the FF team could purchase it for a month or 2 as a redirect url?

[o_sh4x]

The FF team should sue PCGamer and ask that they buy the domain they linked to for FF.

I think that would be fair to ask seriously. "We don't want money, we only want you to fix your mistake. Misleaded ppl might never come back to FF because the first time they checked they ended up on a lame ass ad site."

[o_darksoul]

it takes a degree of interest for someone to read an article in a gaming magazine and then choose to investigate further. i'd wager a fair amount that 99% of people who read that article won't even be tempted to try fortressforever.com (unfortunately) but the 1% who do actually want to find out more info on the mod won't get the the add site and think "ah fuck it"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...er&btnG=Search

[o_sh4x]

In court, you can't win with arguments like that sorry.

[o_darksoul]

oh i'm sorry i thought this was the internet.


i'm sure the devs will not be losing sleep over the typo