Impressions

[greenday5494]

Originally Posted by Ihmhi

I thought Spy was 100% invisible when he's not moving? I've certainly seen Spys stop moving and can't see a damn thing. Could be because I'm on DX 8.1 on hardware though...

it is. if you look REALLY hard, you can still see yourself, wihle standing still. before i upgrade, i couldnt see spies for shit. now, DX9, i can see spies easily. i was horrified when i forced 8.1, there were no shaders on the Spy! DX8.1 can handle shaders quite nicely, put it in!

[Peon]

Originally Posted by puppychow

*Seen back and forth discussion about the spy cloak, and if its hard or easy to see. Plain as daylight to me. Suggest make 100% invis while still, and harder to see while moving. To balance, perhaps cloak takes off health, or can only cloak when + cwertain amount of health

I would say...it depends where you are standing still...a good Spy will pick a dark corner or nook in a wall. In my experiences, when I am moving people see me most of the time...BUT...when I am still, and in a good spot, I cannot count the amount of times that I saw enemies look around and continue on. It's a level of cool, and tenseness I cannot describe...

When looking for a motionless Spy who knows how to hide I have and equally difficult time spotting him. It's damn near impossible to find a motionless Spy if you're not alerted to one being around....unless you get lucky, or they are hiding in a bad spot...I would say.

Originally Posted by puppychow

*I think jump pads are silly.

I imagined something else myself too....

Originally Posted by puppychow

Overall, incredible.

Indeed!

[mixer]

Originally Posted by GoatMan

Booooooooring.

All the fun in soldier is the ability to juggle...

it goes too much at the expense of the other classes since its far to easy for the soly to interrupt your movement, spoil your gren-throwing and of course, fragging you. I dont know about the possibilites of the source-engine, but maybe that 'juggle-ability' could be limited to the certain classes, the ones that are so fast, that would be one possibility if the dev-team refuses to slow down the concer-classes ...

[mixer]

Originally Posted by =AS= zE

I usually play as offie, and i can tell u that in the v.2 the offie owns a lot more than it did in v1.2. So if offie is faster/concs are powerful why should soldier be downgraded.. Compare it with TFC where in some maps with a good defense u sometimes didnt even touch in the flag

damn, i really should try tfc again ...

.. lolz look at FF..theres always caps.. that means that offie is stronger which i agree..but don't ask for reduce push cuse that would weak def more than it is already..

so now they enabled the soly to conquer those super-off-classes ... and what about all the other def-classes?

[GoatMan]

Originally Posted by mixer

it goes too much at the expense of the other classes since its far to easy for the soly to interrupt your movement, spoil your gren-throwing and of course, fragging you. I dont know about the possibilites of the source-engine, but maybe that 'juggle-ability' could be limited to the certain classes, the ones that are so fast, that would be one possibility if the dev-team refuses to slow down the concer-classes ...

Thats the purpose of the class.

Soldiers are slow the only thing that he has to keep you from just running by him is his rockets push.

[mixer]

Originally Posted by GoatMan

Thats the purpose of the class.

Soldiers are slow the only thing that he has to keep you from just running by him is his rockets push.

im not questioning that, but im questioning the 'how much' ...

[greenday5494]

Originally Posted by Peon

I would say...it depends where you are standing still...a good Spy will pick a dark corner or nook in a wall. In my experiences, when I am moving people see me most of the time...BUT...when I am still, and in a good spot, I cannot count the amount of times that I saw enemies look around and continue on. It's a level of cool, and tenseness I cannot describe...

agree. that's why i liked splinter cell online so damn much. i loved sneaking around, in the dark and breaking people's necks.



carry on

[myersjr]

Originally Posted by =AS= zE

I usually play as offie, and i can tell u that in the v.2 the offie owns a lot more than it did in v1.2. So if offie is faster/concs are powerful why should soldier be downgraded.. Compare it with TFC where in some maps with a good defense u sometimes didnt even touch in the flag.. lolz look at FF..theres always caps.. that means that offie is stronger which i agree..but don't ask for reduce push cuse that would weak def more than it is already..

The answer to this is simply make the conc a bit more effective at dizzying the defense..where it really affects their shooting. As a primarily offensive medic, i like the idea of being able to push the solly out of my way just for a moment while i sneak in and grab that flag..granted, you do have your players that truly know what they're doing and can still shoot while concussed but, not everyone does..

[pF]

^Since a def soldier spends 3/4 of his game concussed already, that would be well annoying.

[Hammock]

I like when med's and scouts try and conc me out of the way and run by me at choke points in map. My conc aim with the rpg is better than any other weapon in the game, and it surprises/pisses them off when I can usually take them out after they just conced me (closer quarters situation).

The problem here is I think the discrepency of skill. You can easily tell beginner sollies apart from experienced ones. They may have the push but don't know how to use it.

Before 2.0 [FF Solly] < [TFC Solly]. The push and juggling capabilities weren't there, so every experienced solly from TFC was sorta handicapped. His strats his shots and aim all with the intention of popping the enemy up and trying to juggle him just didn't work in this game.

Well with 2.0 they brought the solly back more in line with TFC's, making the juggling possible again. So all of a sudden you have all these experienced sollies from TFC with their handicap removed.

It takes skill to shoot a rocket in a way to pop up (or stop the motion of) an opponent, and finally people who were good at solly before can excercise this skill once again.

And this is where offensive skill should be learned. Offense's task is not to complain about not being able to get by a solly's learned skill by using unbalancing issues. It's offense's job to learn their "skill" of juking the solly out.

There are quite a few scouts out there that just ignore me as solly in my position, running circles around me, while there are many out there that I can take down.

This is a skill issue nothing more.

[Adamido]

Just to remind, offense aren't only MEDICS and SCOUTS.

[myersjr]

Originally Posted by Hammock

I like when med's and scouts try and conc me out of the way and run by me at choke points in map. My conc aim with the rpg is better than any other weapon in the game, and it surprises/pisses them off when I can usually take them out after they just conced me (closer quarters situation).

The problem here is I think the discrepency of skill. You can easily tell beginner sollies apart from experienced ones. They may have the push but don't know how to use it.

Before 2.0 [FF Solly] < [TFC Solly]. The push and juggling capabilities weren't there, so every experienced solly from TFC was sorta handicapped. His strats his shots and aim all with the intention of popping the enemy up and trying to juggle him just didn't work in this game.

Well with 2.0 they brought the solly back more in line with TFC's, making the juggling possible again. So all of a sudden you have all these experienced sollies from TFC with their handicap removed.

It takes skill to shoot a rocket in a way to pop up (or stop the motion of) an opponent, and finally people who were good at solly before can excercise this skill once again.

And this is where offensive skill should be learned. Offense's task is not to complain about not being able to get by a solly's learned skill by using unbalancing issues. It's offense's job to learn their "skill" of juking the solly out.

There are quite a few scouts out there that just ignore me as solly in my position, running circles around me, while there are many out there that I can take down.

This is a skill issue nothing more.

Hammock, i would have to agree. One thing in my defence, i usually play medic, no where near as fast as scout. In addition, im just now starting to learn how to bhop after 2-3 years of playing. I find that im constantly learning as i go along. I have to admit i havent figured out how to get around the "excellent sollies" just yet, Im working on it..I do know one thing, playing with the best, you learn from the best. I think the biggest thing for me, is when you are playing, you have to quickly recognise any pattern and/or accompanying weakness. Thats what i try to do..What i find is that ive spent alot of time battling the solly, only to get taken out by the sg..or vice versa..take out the sg, only to get taken out by the solly..

[Hammock]

Originally Posted by myersjr

Hammock, i would have to agree. One thing in my defence, i usually play medic, no where near as fast as scout. In addition, im just now starting to learn how to bhop after 2-3 years of playing. I find that im constantly learning as i go along. I have to admit i havent figured out how to get around the "excellent sollies" just yet, Im working on it..I do know one thing, playing with the best, you learn from the best. I think the biggest thing for me, is when you are playing, you have to quickly recognise any pattern and/or accompanying weakness. Thats what i try to do..What i find is that ive spent alot of time battling the solly, only to get taken out by the sg..or vice versa..take out the sg, only to get taken out by the solly..

I agree, there are many situations when I got an amazing scout up against me that I just can't stop. When this happens I'll actually slow my attacks down if not let the scout by me completely unscathed just so I can study his movements and his trends to his attack. Everyone has patterns you just have to figure them out.

[Handym]

You don't get the point. The skilled soldier will always > any other skilled class. It's just waaay too easy to juggle people up the air, and then they just won't have anything to do besides wait till they die a clumsy, pointless death. I agree with mixer, the push should be reduced, if not entirely removed. As for this "skill" you're talking about.. come on, playing soldier is easy. The radius has been increased to the point where you can no longer dodge the splash if you're at closer range, and since most FF maps consist of narrow bases.. good bye mister rocket victim. And the experienced TFC soldiers.. why should their skill have anything to do with this game's balance? IMO soldiers in the previous patch were much better in the last patch balance-wise, because then you would actually have to rely on damage dealing instead of rocket push, which is much more fair.

[mixer]

Originally Posted by Handym

You don't get the point. The skilled soldier will always > any other skilled class. It's just waaay too easy to juggle people up the air, and then they just won't have anything to do besides wait till they die a clumsy, pointless death.

dude since that class is so overpowered i decided to start playing it, im a complete soldier-nub but in only the 2nd or 3rd pub game i played soly, one from clan HoL was trying to recruit me ) that class is far far far to easy and powerfull ...

the devs completly messed up the balance, first they overpowered the offence, then they are running around scared trying to fix it again and that way this soly was born ...

[caesium]

i'm not saying it's perfect as it is and that it couldn't use a little tweaking, but i think you're entirely missing the point about the skill of playing soldier.

the skill of playing soldier is not in the skill of being able to take on 1 enemy and expect to win easily every time. <-- that is really just a basic understanding of the class's weapons that a player will have to develop before they can go on to learn about the real skills of the soldier class (i.e. what makes a player a good soldier). by this i mean for example the skills of...

1) balancing the use of your limited resources (rpg/ssg reloading, h/a, grens, and v importantly time).
2) learning to optimise and adapt your precise position and movement. this is an extremely important and deep skill that many inexperienced players wouldn't even realise the significance of.
3) teamplay.
etc.

...in order to optimally deal with multiple enemies (constantly calculating risk/reward at every moment and taking decisions/consequences accordingly) as part of a constantly evolving team.

maybe i'm being too harsh on you, and you really have figured out how to do all that optimally for any scenario, but i pld def soldier in decent TFC clans for many years and i never got even remotely close to feeling i'd got it all figured out lol.

so what FF does is make that "basic understanding of the class's weapons that a player will have to develop before they can go on to learn about the real skills of the soldier class" much much more accessible and easier to for new players to get fairly good at. this is great because it exposes a load more ppl to the real skills of the soldier class, which are awesome and are what initially got me hooked on TFC many years ago when i finally started to understand them!

[mixer]

Originally Posted by caesium

i'm not saying it's perfect as it is and that it couldn't use a little tweaking, but i think you're entirely missing the point about the skill of playing soldier.

the skill of playing soldier is not in the skill of being able to take on 1 enemy and expect to win easily every time. <-- that is really just a basic understanding of the class's weapons that a player will have to develop before they can go on to learn about the real skills of the soldier class (i.e. what makes a player a good soldier). by this i mean for example the skills of...

1) balancing the use of your limited resources (rpg/ssg reloading, h/a, grens, and v importantly time).
2) learning to optimise and adapt your precise position and movement. this is an extremely important and deep skill that many inexperienced players wouldn't even realise the significance of.
3) teamplay.
etc.

...in order to optimally deal with multiple enemies (constantly calculating risk/reward at every moment and taking decisions/consequences accordingly) as part of a constantly evolving team.

maybe i'm being too harsh on you, and you really have figured out how to do all that optimally for any scenario, but i pld def soldier in decent TFC clans for many years and i never got even remotely close to feeling i'd got it all figured out lol.

so what FF does is make that "basic understanding of the class's weapons that a player will have to develop before they can go on to learn about the real skills of the soldier class" much much more accessible and easier to for new players to get fairly good at. this is great because it exposes a load more ppl to the real skills of the soldier class, which are awesome and are what initially got me hooked on TFC many years ago when i finally started to understand them!

dude, when an enemy player of another class faces a soldier, he doesnt care about what you are glorifying here, he just faces an extremely overpowered class ...

[TheWetMule]

Originally Posted by mixer

dude, when an enemy player of another class faces a soldier, he doesnt care about what you are glorifying here, he just faces an extremely overpowered class ...

Soldier is barely over powered, if anything I'd say demoman was, easiest class to defend with evarrr if you use greens only, they can do pretty devastating offense runs too :P

[Adamido]

Originally Posted by caesium

1) balancing the use of your limited resources (rpg/ssg reloading, h/a, grens, and v importantly time).
2) learning to optimise and adapt your precise position and movement. this is an extremely important and deep skill that many inexperienced players wouldn't even realise the significance of.
3) teamplay.
etc.

Too bad that it applies to EVERY class.

[Hammock]

Considering the solly is the 2nd slowest class in the game, and the 2nd heaviest you'd think that if you have two equally skilled players one a solly and one any other class but solly or hw. The solly should win everytime hands down in a 1v1 environment.

This is where skill, strategy and a bit of luck change your odds in beating him.