Should FF evolve or stick to TFC

[slay2rr]

Fortress Forever was a HL2 mod for TFC, which is meant to stick to the tradition gameplay of Fortress. But really although the gameplay is good it is a 10 year-old gameplay and might not be what new gamers are looking for.

Now one thing I disagree with is that FF should focus on vets, that is completely wrong, no matter what game it can not live on only experienced players. And FF needs to attract new players, as that is the only way for the play base to grow. And ATM the play base is quite low, compared to other sourcemods.

I believe Fortress Forever is meant to be a Team Fortress experience for source engine, not just TFC:S. FF need to evolve, But i feel FF's current state as being stuck between those who want a TFC:S (same everything as TFC) and those who want to FF to become something of its own.

I think the Devs have done a great job introducing the man cannon and shortening blue pipes fuse, I don't understand why people are complaining so much. But at the same time as new ideas are put in, there are many that have been shot down which i think were not game breaking to introduce, such as the 3-slot system, this is not a rip-off of TF2, there are heaps of games that have it, just because TF2 doesn't mean it is bad for FF. FF shouldn't be a anti-everything-TF2, they are both fortress games, so it is almost impossible to make them completely different.

FF is meant to be the next generation of Fortress games, so if a idea is bad it should be given a proper reason, not something like It doesn't stay true to Fortress, because in truth you don't know what Fortress is.

Fortress is evolving, so should FF, because if we don't we'll eventually be extinct.

[Hirohito]

It should grind in the Unknown Dungeon for a few hours so that it can properly evolve. Rare Candies stunt stat growth.

[leilei]

ff should evolve to fortv1_0.zip

[v3rtigo]

Currently, I think FF is stuck between staying 'true' to TFC and creating it's own identity, which has me questioning certain decisions occasionally. Personally, I'd say either break from the TFC/fortress standard and start experimenting with things on a bigger scale(without dropping the fortress theme ofc) or stick to the old fortress feeling we all know, only with prettier graphics.

[s0undch4s3r]

yes...graphics...it's all about the graphics mostly.

As far a game play, I think it could go differently from the old TFC style. Do something to get a bigger player base. There's a lot of potential for this mod.

[KubeDawg]

I'm enjoying the gameplay for the most part. There are kinks that need to be worked out, things that need to be adjusted, and maps that need to be made, but other than that, all I can see that really needs attention is the graphical side of things, and even that is not too big of a deal for me.

Possibly TFC models used in FF? I wouldn't mind going old school for a while.

[Innoc]

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

I'm enjoying the gameplay for the most part. There are kinks that need to be worked out, things that need to be adjusted, and maps that need to be made, but other than that, all I can see that really needs attention is the graphical side of things, and even that is not too big of a deal for me.

Possibly TFC models used in FF? I wouldn't mind going old school for a while.

Now that I've actually played it some I have to say I'm enjoying it. With as much time as I've spent away from the Fortress arena my rustiness makes me laugh...loudly! There is much that does remind me of TFC and I think that is a good thing. I will say that I miss having 4 MIRVS as in the early versions of TFC...

[dys]

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

I'm enjoying the gameplay for the most part. There are kinks that need to be worked out, things that need to be adjusted, and maps that need to be made, but other than that, all I can see that really needs attention is the graphical side of things, and even that is not too big of a deal for me.

Possibly TFC models used in FF? I wouldn't mind going old school for a while.

qft!

The game really is a lot of fun to play, Once the tweaks are made it will be that much better. No doubt there's a need for increased publicity and I do think it's seriously lacking there, but w/e. As long as I can get on and have fun it doesn't bother me that much. Anyways, to repeat myself, I really like the game and think it's fun to play.

[Ihmhi]

FF has to stay true to TFC at least in spirit - the high flying, high skill sort of play.

TFC was very frustrating for me to play starting off. I was playing at, no joke, 1 kill for every 15 deaths as Soldier. After a couple weeks I got up to 1 to 5, and now I play comfortably at 1 to 2 or so. Once you get past this initial frustration, TFC is far more rewarding than sitting on your ass with an AWP and sniping people.

Anyone who has never played TFC and has played TF2 probably thought it was a good game. Anyone who has played TFC and picked up TF2... well I can't speak up for everyone, but I was thoroughly disappointed.

The best thing about TFC and FF is that it's relatively simple to understand if it's explained to you. Right now it isn't explained very well, at least in game. When people know the classes abilities and there's good training and the like, that issue will be gone. Easy to learn, hard to master - those games are the most fun in my opinion. TFC and FF are about a lot more than twitch aim skills.

[SoBe Green]

Well said slay2rr.

[fireb0rn]

FF is meant to be the next generation of Fortress games, so if a idea is bad it should be given a proper reason, not something like It doesn't stay true to Fortress, because in truth you don't know what Fortress is.

"next generation" means nothing, literally.. the point of FF, I would imagine, is to make a good game that stays true to the TF series. and staying true to fortress is a proper enough reason because we all enjoyed fortress and this is a sequel to fortress. if this were a sequel to duke nukem I could see why you might complain that FF is staying true to TF. people buy (or in this case simply play) sequels because they enjoy the other games. but again, I'd imagine the point would just be to make a fun game that stays relatively true to TF. if making a fun game requires staying true to TF in some aspects, I say do it, if it requires creating entirely new gameplay aspects in certain parts, then do it. there's no reason or basis I think for thinking this is a battle between TFC:S and FF. well, i think FF is already a unique game anyways..

i don't even know how to respond to you saying "you don't know what fortress is" though. lol... I've played the games...

anyways, some points:

1) FF isn't anti-TF2. TF2 is the game that strayed away from the formula to begin with.

2) there's no such thing as "old" gameplay or "evolving" gameplay. there's a different gaming audience today than there was 10 years ago, yes. people assume gaming is getting better because advertisers throw around words like "revolutionary" and people love it. like Oblivion's "revolutionary" (see: innovative) radiant AI. but as far as gameplay goes, though, while TF2 was a fun game, all it did was remove several gameplay elements which added depth, gave TF a cartoony appearance and put the game on the shelves. some people prefer that, obviously. but that's an advancement in accessibility, not gameplay. and accessibility almost always comes at the cost of gameplay depth (TFC was a rare case). I would say that today, in general, gameplay is devolving more than anything.

3) you say FF is focused on vets. the game is undoubtedly hard to enter into, and that's being worked on, but I still think it's easier than TFC. or at least will be once the training mode is completed. so in other words, it's being worked on.

[thiz]

In europe the TFC community have basically told FF to get lost.

I have no problem with the game evolving / changing, as long as it's better / more skillful, and not dumbed down.

[Credge]

I'll put it like this...

The game is called Fortress Forever. Fortress style gameplay has a pretty strict set of rules. Currently, 2.0 doesn't really fit the requirements of a Fortress game (just as TF2 doesn't). This situation not only has many confused, but is one of the reasons why very few TF vets actually play the game and why even fewer people play the game now.

The game has had an identity crisis since 2.0 came out. Several added mechanics that were introduced made a balanced game imbalanced. 1.11 was fine. The mechanics were decent (except for the HW) and a 1.2 (make the HW like he was in TFC, increase explosion radius, increase scout BHop cap) could have lasted longer than this 2.0 has.

The direction of the mod has gone away from the TF style play in just one patch.

[zE]

Originally Posted by slay2rr

Now one thing I disagree with is that FF should focus on vets, that is completely wrong, no matter what game it can not live on only experienced players.

If FF has so focus on vets it would be = to tfc with improved graphics tbh. I really think FF its a lot more newbie friendly than tfc... concing,bunnyhoping,sliding,aim conced etc etc etc. Wich i dont really like but i can live with it.

[GeoKill----->]

Originally Posted by Credge

The direction of the mod has gone away from the TF style play in just one patch.

lolz I never understand what the definition of TF style is.... ppl say the same about TF2 :/

[Circuitous]

Originally Posted by thiz

In europe the TFC community have basically told FF to get lost.

I have no problem with the game evolving / changing, as long as it's better / more skillful, and not dumbed down.

I think the real problem with changing the game while only making it "better / more skillful" is that you guys would be the only one playing it.

Originally Posted by Credge

The game is called Fortress Forever. Fortress style gameplay has a pretty strict set of rules. Currently, 2.0 doesn't really fit the requirements of a Fortress game (just as TF2 doesn't). This situation not only has many confused, but is one of the reasons why very few TF vets actually play the game and why even fewer people play the game now.

Okay, what?

Alright, TF Pros, do us all a fucking favor and spell out the requirements for a Team Fortress game, because this is getting ridiculous.

[Dr.Satan]

Originally Posted by Circuitous

Alright, TF Pros, do us all a fucking favor and spell out the requirements for a Team Fortress game, because this is getting ridiculous.

IMO depth is the only thing that has ever separated a "fortress" game from any other game I ever played. The fact that I could never be better then everyone and am always learning something new almost everytime I join up is what Fortress meant to me.

Of course the core classes, weapons, bhop, concs, CTF, AvD, diversity, and the people all I think tie into that, but honestly none of that would matter for shit if this game were like any other in that I can beat and / or master it in a matter of days, weeks, or even months and years. If that were the case, personally, I would have stopped playing a long time ago.

[Ihmhi]

Well, what does TFC have that TF2 doesn't?

-Speed
-Weapons jumping (save for pipe/rocket)
-Bhop
-Multiple styles of play (i.e. more than two WHOOPS NEW PATCH three)
-????
-PROFIT

[Circuitous]

No, no, you two are at least remotely involved in development of this not-entirely-Team-Fortress game, you clearly have no idea what a Team Fortress game is.

[bokko]

Originally Posted by slay2rr

I believe Fortress Forever is meant to be a Team Fortress experience for source engine, not just TFC:S. FF need to evolve, But i feel FF's current state as being stuck between those who want a TFC:S (same everything as TFC) and those who want to FF to become something of its own.

If we are to over-simplify and label people I would rather split the community into A, those who want to improve the classic TF gameplay, and B, those who want to make FF into a TF2 clone. Obvious examples of of the latter: removing grenades, making the medic into a supportive class, the instant valve release a new game mode they want it converted into FF. These ideas are not in line with the classic TF gameplay, they're not elaborated, they're just taken off TF2!

Evolve does not necessarily mean doing what valve did with TF2, this is usually where people will disagree (although some are not able to come to terms with this). Evolving can also be done in accordance with the classic Team Fortress gameplay, and I think you will find this is what is being done now. Obviously we're not seeing much change right now but this is understandable considering the absense of developpers actually committing to the mod.