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Old 10-14-2010, 08:05 PM   #121
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Iran is a country that still stones women to death for adultery.

I don't necessarily think that we have the right to decide who gets to have what weapon. However, I do think that Iran is farther behind than other countries who are after nuclear weapons.

The reason it matters is because they aren't reliable leadership. This is a country governed by a man who fixes elections and is known to be violent and hateful towards the west (that's us). We should be concerned when he is trying to put his hands on a more effective way of killing us.
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:52 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BinaryLife View Post
Iran is a country that still stones women to death for adultery.

I don't necessarily think that we have the right to decide who gets to have what weapon. However, I do think that Iran is farther behind than other countries who are after nuclear weapons.

The reason it matters is because they aren't reliable leadership. This is a country governed by a man who fixes elections and is known to be violent and hateful towards the west (that's us). We should be concerned when he is trying to put his hands on a more effective way of killing us.
Iran is much like the US, in that it's people are progressive and forward-thinking, but their leaders are keeping them back from achieving what they want. Iran is under the control of religious extremists, but it's peoples are largely secular and modern.

Tell me, when your Government does things you don't like, is it fair for people in other countries to hold the belief that such and such policy was the fault of all the people in your country (including you)?

If you said no, why is it fair to apply that standard to Iran?
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Old 10-14-2010, 09:33 PM   #123
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That could be said of almost every country on the planet. Which basicly says that the wrong people are in power, and no government should be trusted.
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Old 10-15-2010, 01:57 AM   #124
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That could be said of almost every country on the planet. Which basicly says that the wrong people are in power, and no government should be trusted.
Exactly!

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Old 10-15-2010, 11:34 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenghisTron View Post
Iran is much like the US, in that it's people are progressive and forward-thinking, but their leaders are keeping them back from achieving what they want. Iran is under the control of religious extremists, but it's peoples are largely secular and modern.

Tell me, when your Government does things you don't like, is it fair for people in other countries to hold the belief that such and such policy was the fault of all the people in your country (including you)?

If you said no, why is it fair to apply that standard to Iran?
Generalizing a statement doesn't make your argument fit. I don't agree with the tax policy that exists, but that doesn't mean I should be punished for my governments feelings on taxes.

However, when it comes to policies on wanting to kill innocent people for reason, or waging war with large nations because your government wants more power, then yes I absolutely think it's fair to prevent that government from attaining nuclear weapons.

Also, no one said Iran's people were at fault. Part of the problem is that Ahmadinejad cheated his election to take control. You can't cheat an election legitimately. By very definition this means that his people are not sharing his political views. It also means that they want him out of there. They are clearly not responsible for his actions. The nature of the conversation shows us that.

I just don't think it matters. The man wants to use his armies to cause hate, war and death. The source of that claim makes no difference, it's true and regardless of who thinks it it's still true. Men like that should t be allowed to have nuclear weapons.
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Old 10-15-2010, 09:55 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BinaryLife View Post
Also, no one said Iran's people were at fault. Part of the problem is that Ahmadinejad cheated his election to take control. You can't cheat an election legitimately. By very definition this means that his people are not sharing his political views. It also means that they want him out of there. They are clearly not responsible for his actions. The nature of the conversation shows us that.
The same could be said for President Bush(remember Florida?)... I've seen it happen here in MD locally. Apparently, in Maryland, it's legal for dead people to cast a vote.
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:13 PM   #127
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Iran stones people to death, and we recently killed a man via firing squad. I look past the method. It's still murder either way, so spare me the hypocrisy.
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Old 10-16-2010, 03:00 PM   #128
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Like I said, america doesn't really have the right to run around telling everyone what to do. Also, no one. Including america should have nuclear weapons. But no one includes Iran and my arguments are meant to point out that there is reason for the us to care about the subject. Other countries as well.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:50 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BinaryLife View Post
Generalizing a statement doesn't make your argument fit. I don't agree with the tax policy that exists, but that doesn't mean I should be punished for my governments feelings on taxes.
I think you're misunderstanding my point. My point is that, in the international world, countries are perceived based on the actions of their leaders. For instance, Europeans largely dislike Americans because of the actions of President Bush, and they make the mistake of thinking that we are like Bush, or that we agree with him.

The same goes for places like Iran. Neo-cons are screaming bloody murder at the prospect of Iran going nuclear, but most sensible people realize that Ahmadinejad is just a glorified troll, and that they should be allowed to go nuclear. After all, we let Israel secretly develop (Who am I kidding, we blatantly gave them the info and technology) a nuclear arms program that, to this day, has not been officially recognized by the UN, but it's kind of just 'hush hush' that Israel has nuclear arms.

Going back to my earlier point, a nuclear weapon is merely an invitation to the big boy's table in international affairs. No one is insane enough to actually use the weapon. It's merely a hall pass to go to the bathroom.

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However, when it comes to policies on wanting to kill innocent people for reason, or waging war with large nations because your government wants more power, then yes I absolutely think it's fair to prevent that government from attaining nuclear weapons.
The reason why Governments like Iran want more influence, is because they've been raped by Western Governments. All you need to do is look back 50 years or so, and you'll see the hand of the CIA.


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Old 10-19-2010, 12:34 AM   #130
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When I was in high school there was this kid that for some reason didn't like me very much. I think it turned out that I was annoying on the bus by singing a long with my music. But it's not important. What is important is that every chance he got he would start a fight with me. I would tell him to leave me alone, or chill or even that I was sorry for whatever it is that I did. But you know what I wouldn't do? Let him hit me. If he told me he owned a knife, and brought it to school you know what I'd do? I'd tell a teacher and get his knife taken away. Do you know why? I don't like getting stabbed. Getting stabbed hurts.


I'm clearly oversimplifying. But ultimately my message is incredibly simple. I'm not debating the US's influence on the east. Clearly, it's a spotted history. But then, go far enough back in history and you realize it was the more civilized eastern countries that almost suffocated the western expansion. The two "sides" have been involved in conflict since history began, just about. I'm not saying it doesn't matter. I think it does. I think it's truly important. What I am saying is that when a noted enemy wants a weapon to more easily kill me then I think it's best to keep them from having it.

You're saying they want nuclear weapons so that they can be more seriously considered and all that. I understand. Believe it or not, I know. I read things outside of your posts. I just came to a different conclusion. See, I think that as long as they still run their country backwards like they do they don't get a say. Is it my place to talk? Not really, no. Is it the US's also no. But since the US has more clout in international debate then they happen to get that say. Change in that manner wont really come in an instant and therefore isn't a productive area of discussion in a topic based on whether or not a country still ruled by a dictator, that treats women like crap should be allowed to have nuclear weapons.
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:01 AM   #131
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Binary, your response begs the question: Should you be allowed to carry your knife to school with you? Why? Especially if you're the only kid in the school who's stabbed someone.
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Old 10-19-2010, 03:01 AM   #132
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Quote:
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Binary, your response begs the question: Should you be allowed to carry your knife to school with you? Why? Especially if you're the only kid in the school who's stabbed someone.
My answer is why I haven't gotten into that section of the discussion. Because, honestly, no I shouldn't be.

Extrapolating that; I don't believe the US should have any nuclear weapons. Or any country for that matter. I think we need to learn to feel safe from threats without needing an equal or greater threat on our side. I don't think we will as a society any time soon.
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Old 10-19-2010, 03:35 AM   #133
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Old 11-24-2010, 01:41 AM   #134
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