Fortress Forever

Go Back   Fortress Forever > Community > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-16-2006, 10:35 AM   #21
Circuitous
Useless
Retired FF Staff
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout
Gametype: AvD
Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times
Send a message via AIM to Circuitous Send a message via MSN to Circuitous Send a message via Yahoo to Circuitous Send a message via Skype™ to Circuitous
With one audio alert per minute and one text alert per 30 seconds to prevent repeated message spamming, and a limit of 5 consecutive touches per life per player.
__________________
Look at all those dead links.
Circuitous is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-17-2006, 07:45 AM   #22
o_d3pth charge
 
o_d3pth charge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Davis, CA
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
what if a spy throws the flag and feigns death? If he is able to pick up the flag again without there being any message for 30 seconds, that is a huge advantage and not fair at all to the defense.
o_d3pth charge is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-17-2006, 11:11 AM   #23
Circuitous
Useless
Retired FF Staff
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout
Gametype: AvD
Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times
Send a message via AIM to Circuitous Send a message via MSN to Circuitous Send a message via Yahoo to Circuitous Send a message via Skype™ to Circuitous
Why would feigning death and coming back count as a new life?
__________________
Look at all those dead links.
Circuitous is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-17-2006, 02:17 PM   #24
o_smax
 
o_smax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Currently: Alabama
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by exr8eD
the reason the flag delay was implimented was because without it... someone can just take a flag to spawn and play catch with himself against a wall, spamming the server with the flag grab sound. i like the way it is now.. i wouldnt want to throw a flag and be able to pick it right back up.. seems too easy to me tbh
lol thats EXACTLY the reason the flag delay was implemented...haha i remember like 5 years ago just running in a straight line grabbing the flag, tossing it in front on me, then grabbing it again...annoying
o_smax is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-17-2006, 03:34 PM   #25
PHISH
Retired FF Staff
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: cow college
Posts Rated Helpful 13 Times
That may have been the reason the delay was implemented, but you people are overlooking something the toss-regrab delay adds to the equation.. There's a decision an offensive player has to make if they grab the flag, whether to throw the flag or whether to hold onto it and try to get more movement if they think they won't die in the next second.

If people are able to toss and grab instantly every time it reduces the importance of making that judgement correctly.
PHISH is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-17-2006, 04:08 PM   #26
o_smax
 
o_smax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Currently: Alabama
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHISH
That may have been the reason the delay was implemented, but you people are overlooking something the toss-regrab delay adds to the equation.. There's a decision an offensive player has to make if they grab the flag, whether to throw the flag or whether to hold onto it and try to get more movement if they think they won't die in the next second.

If people are able to toss and grab instantly every time it reduces the importance of making that judgement correctly.
Oh yeah, I'm totally for the flag delay. And I agree the decision being made between whether to hold or huck the flag separates the good from the great. I was just reminiscing ...

KEEP THE DELAEY
o_smax is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-17-2006, 04:12 PM   #27
o_neon
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Belgium
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Is it so (don't know it for sure) if you toss the flag directly (so without an nmy touching it) towards a team member does he catch the flag or goes the flag through him?

Otherwhise I think this could also be implentend if you do it for a tactical reason, or that the only person not grabbing the flag imediately is the one who tossed it? Anyway I think it's lame and it isn't realy making sense that you can't grab the flag immediately.
o_neon is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-17-2006, 04:43 PM   #28
PHISH
Retired FF Staff
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: cow college
Posts Rated Helpful 13 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoN
Is it so (don't know it for sure) if you toss the flag directly (so without an nmy touching it) towards a team member does he catch the flag or goes the flag through him?

Otherwhise I think this could also be implentend if you do it for a tactical reason, or that the only person not grabbing the flag imediately is the one who tossed it? Anyway I think it's lame and it isn't realy making sense that you can't grab the flag immediately.
The person who just tossed the flag cannot regrab it for like 3 seconds. You can toss it directly to a teammate who grabs it immediately..sometimes catching it in midair, in fact thats often the purpose Some of the coolest sequences are when all four offensive players touch the flag in a couple seconds- one after another as they grab the flag, toss it before they die, with the last guy getting out with the flag.
PHISH is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-17-2006, 05:02 PM   #29
o_kamik
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHISH
The person who just tossed the flag cannot regrab it for like 3 seconds. You can toss it directly to a teammate who grabs it immediately..sometimes catching it in midair, in fact thats often the purpose Some of the coolest sequences are when all four offensive players touch the flag in a couple seconds- one after another as they grab the flag, toss it before they die, with the last guy getting out with the flag.
Yup exactly what it is.


The reason they put the 3 sec delay is to avoid spammer and have you think twice before tossing the flag, the gameplay would be changed completely if there was no delay.. i mean why carry the flag at all when you can always throw it and have it 4 feet ahead? bind w +throwitem; +forward anyone?

It is perfect as is in TFC right now.

Someone mentionned that if an ennemy touch the flag than you can take it back right away and that is wrong information too.
o_kamik is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-17-2006, 05:09 PM   #30
o_ghost
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
I'm pretty sure that is actually true, being able to pick up the flag early if an enemy touches it.
o_ghost is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-17-2006, 05:13 PM   #31
o_id_
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamik
Yup exactly what it is.


The reason they put the 3 sec delay is to avoid spammer and have you think twice before tossing the flag, the gameplay would be changed completely if there was no delay.. i mean why carry the flag at all when you can always throw it and have it 4 feet ahead? bind w +throwitem; +forward anyone?

It is perfect as is in TFC right now.

Someone mentionned that if an ennemy touch the flag than you can take it back right away and that is wrong information too.
that was the entire point of this thread actually, and you are incorrect. go into a tfc server with a buddy of yours, be on opposing teams, grab the flag, drop it, let him run over it, and pick it back up.
o_id_ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-17-2006, 07:18 PM   #32
o_kamik
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
I thought after 7 years i would of known that, i guess i was wrong.


Ohh well Ive learned something thanks guys!
o_kamik is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-18-2006, 12:03 AM   #33
o_id_
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamik
I thought after 7 years i would of known that, i guess i was wrong.


Ohh well Ive learned something thanks guys!
anytime
o_id_ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-18-2006, 12:18 AM   #34
o_darknight
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Yorkshire
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Ooh didn't know that. I doubt it will be in FF, though. There's no way of looking at it other than being a bug imo.
o_darknight is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-18-2006, 04:24 AM   #35
o_etzell
 
o_etzell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
I look at it as fun and interesting. Concing is a bug, it'll be there. I don't see any reason for it NOT to be there, unless the devs decide it won't be.

Dev input?
o_etzell is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-18-2006, 06:07 AM   #36
Jiggles
Retired FF Staff
 
Jiggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CowTown
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
Knowing when toss the flag certainly is a skill, to some extent. It's also dependent quite a bit on luck.

The flag delay was a quick hack fix to the problem so Valve didn't have to think about it. We adapted to it, but I think it needs to go, or at least be made obvious, since it's unintuitive (and thus confusing to the newbie), and frankly stupid. Why can't I pick up the flag I just tossed? - it makes no sense, and (more importantly) isn't fun

How about this: Lets add the quake style reloading of rockets to FF, since it's a skill to know when to reload your rockets. If you choose to reload when an enemy comes, too bad! Heck, let's do that with all the reloadable weapons!

Or, how about making it so Engys can't stop themselves from building until they're done. It's a skill to know when to start building so you're not interrupted!

So yeah, the last two paragraphs were obviously sarcasm. But, to me, there's not a whole lot of difference between the situations, save for the fact that we're used to the flag delay.
Jiggles is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-18-2006, 10:55 AM   #37
o_id_
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
the focus of the thread has shifted slightly, so i guess ill go ahead and give my input on the discussion at hand. i dont know how many of you actually 2v2 in tfc, but having a flag delay in such a game is pretty vital. lets take openfire_l (or lowgrens, doesnt matter for this example) for instance; when one tosses the flag out, he or she then generally runs around trying to wait for the delay to end, at which point he or she will then make another attempt at gathering up the flag. if you take the flag delay out of the game, you have pretty much increased the offensive capability by a rather substantial amount. the main reason for this is by the time someone has actually gotten to the flag, whomever is defending the flag at that moment has probably fired a couple rockets. now with the better players, they keep count of rockets fired by an enemy in their head, so at a certain point, theyll know so and so is out of rockets, can jump in, throw the flag out, and conc away. this scenario is quite common in 2v2s especially.

now i understand that 2v2s arent what this game will be based around, but for people like me who work third shift, leagues are pretty much not an option and so 2v2s are pretty much all thats left for people like me (aside from euro leagues, still somewhat inconvenient though). i dont really play enough 8v8 or 9v9 to really know the implications of removing the flag delay from a larger game like that, but i would imagine it would be much the same as 2v2s.

ill say this much though; im willing to try anything, i have faith that the devs will do the right thing. and we also have playtesting to get through as well, so im fairly confident that the flag delay will be a primary point to be tested during that time. more toward the original point of the thread, if youre quick enough to throw the flag right at the enemy, there isnt a delay to pick it back up easier said than done i know
o_id_ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-18-2006, 11:47 AM   #38
o_fresh
 
o_fresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Brum.
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
I think the flag delay adds more to the game than it takes away, flag delay helps slow down the game a little, its also a punishment for throwing the flag since it can get to places that you might not, like out of the well window. It also helps defence ajust to the flags new position like say monkey flag positrion to the pit, those few seconds are needed just to spot the flag and catch a breath.
o_fresh is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-18-2006, 11:57 AM   #39
o_ekim
 
o_ekim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bristol UK
Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times
Quote:
The reason they put the 3 sec delay is to avoid spammer and have you think twice before tossing the flag, the gameplay would be changed completely if there was no delay.. i mean why carry the flag at all when you can always throw it and have it 4 feet ahead? bind w +throwitem; +forward anyone?
Who walks in straight lines?

The flag delay is totally unintuitive and illogical. There is no ingame justification for it. It doesn't make any kind of sense. It's irritating. Get rid of it.
o_ekim is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 04-18-2006, 12:19 PM   #40
o_vanquish
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times
I think the flag delay adds a lot to the game. It forces you to think before you act. A lot of the time in maps such as SD2 or Openfire you have to ask the question 'should I toss immediately or should I try to walk out of the lasers and hope they don't go back up?' If an enemy offense walks into my flag room on SD2 and tosses the flag out of the lasers when there wasn't another defensive player around and I was reloading, and there was no chance of the lasers coming back up anytime soon, he then gives me 3 seconds to kill him when he could of just gotten away. This is what separates the good from the great, knowing when to toss and when to go. Another good example is openfire. Say you're dming a demo and he shoots a pipe at you, you've then got a split second before he can det to grab the flag and run out of his trap. Someone who doesn't realize this will just toss the flag immediately, and this gives gives the demo 3 extra seconds to reset his pipe trap. Sure, if favors the defense in most situations, but there is that 'bug' where if you can actually throw the flag AT the defender, you don't have to wait. It's just another example of the depth this game has. If the flag was able to be picked up immediately after you tossed it, everyone would throw the flag out of the lasers just to avoid the chance of getting killed by them coming back up, then pick it up immediately and keep going. As it is now you have to take the chance between the lasers and the defense. I could toss it, but I'd have to wait 3 seconds, or I chance getting killed by the lasers coming back online and try to get as far as I can with it in those 3 seconds. Removing the delay would essentially remove those times where you grab the flag, go to leave, and the lasers come back up and kill you, keeping the flag inside the lasers. Everyone would simply toss it. I think maps where the lasers block off the flag room instead of just the flag are better examples of this, such as the original Shutdown_L

Oh, and a lot of people don't walk in straight lines, but they bhop in straight lines. I gain my speed then stop the side to side movement, as a straight line is always the fastest way from point A to point B, given that you're at maximum speed. And the point of having a script bound to toss it constantly is appropriate, as if it kept throwing the flag, then wherever you die the flag is already 4 feet ahead of you. What would happen if I killed someone on the openfire battlements who had my flag and such a script? It would just go out the window and the flag would essentially be gone, whereas with the delay the script wouldn't be possible and the flag would stay on the bments.

Last edited by o_vanquish; 04-18-2006 at 12:28 PM.
o_vanquish is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.