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Old 07-17-2010, 06:32 AM   #1
Bridget
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Suggested Sniper Changes

In my experience, playing against the Sniper comes down to two problems: 1. His range of influence is too huge. I am often dropped long before I can get close enough to deal with him. 2. It's irritating getting killed in one hit. This encourages 'I saw him first, so I win by default' scenarios for the Sniper when the other player could never do that. Playing as a Sniper sees the following problem: 1. The Sniper is inefficient for killing offense due to how fast they move (not literally as an individual, but as a whole). This is due to his weapon requiring him to charge for five-seconds before he can deal sufficient damage. I tried to consider both sides when coming to this presumed solution.

1. The Sniper Rifle can now fire at the click of the mouse, requiring no more charging. It can also fire when in the air, but only via noscope. 2. The Sniper Rifle deals reduced noscope damage, and loses the ability to headshot when not scoped. 3. The Sniper Rifle still zooms, without a scope. It automatically zooms out when you take a shot. 4. The Sniper Rifle should deal static damage. 5. Bodyshots should deal enough damage to kill a Scout in two chestshots. Heavier classes in 4-5 hits. 6. Headshots should deal enough damage to kill low/medium classes in 1 hit. Heavier classes in 2-3 hits. 7. Zooming reduces the movement speed of the Sniper to a crawl. 8. The Sniper Rifle's damage fallsoff across really large distances or the accuracy dwindles. 9. The Sniper Rifle's damage ramps up from close range. This coupled with the above make it ideal to keep your enemy at range, but not too far away. This allows the enemy a better chance to fight back, and he doesn't get picked off at range.

So, in favor of those who hate playing against the Sniper: He no longer kills people in one hit unless it's a headshot, which takes skill in this game given the speed and the Engine's shitty hitboxes. The Sniper no longer does the same damage at range, allowing you time to get close to him; his weapons do the best damage at medium ranges and lower. In favor of those who play Sniper: You might be more viable in competitive gaming. You're free to incorporate movement into the class. You get rewarded for headshots. You don't have to sit around all day charging.

My ideal way to play Sniper is using something like this. You run out of spawn on say, Aardvark, and sit up on the ramp looking down at the boost pad. A Scout lands on it from a concussion grenade, you quickly scope in on his head, and drop him in a single shot. Let's say you're in the flag room on Plasma. An enemy Medic comes in and starts spraying you with nails. You zig-zag left and right to avoid them, quickly scope in, and pop him in the head. Then you whip out the assault rifle and finish him off. The idea is quick burst damage, allowing the Sniper to move between shots and dodge the enemy's fire, instead of sitting there with a fully charged shot reluctant to move because you might miss and have to wait five seconds again.

The inspiration is how Sniper plays competitively in Team Fortress 2. He isn't a bitch class there. The maps are small enough that you can interact with the Sniper. He's usually pulling off quick-shots at range, even at closer ranges where he's at a huge risk. This is my idea of a Sniper in faster paced video games: A mobile class precision class that can down an enemy in 1 or 2 quick scoped shots to the head at the right range. Of course, Team Fortress 2 is much more paced than FF, which allows this to work. So, I could be going about this all wrong.


(See: The Sniper parts in the above video.)

Last edited by Bridget; 07-17-2010 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:07 AM   #2
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With hitboxes as shitty as they are and speeds as high as they are this will not work.
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Old 07-17-2010, 02:17 PM   #3
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I wouldn't mind seeing the SR damage have a distance variable... although better hit detection would help.

Sniper, as I've said before, SHOULD be able to fire in the air. Your aim is already thrown off by being knocked into the air. At least you'd have a chance for a "luck shot".

Also, Bridget, you seem to want to balance the class based on the abilities of the most elite of players. You also forget that hiding the dot is part of strategy, which also means you're not aiming at the optimum spot for a kill when a player comes into your sight range.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:38 AM   #4
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5. Bodyshots should deal enough damage to kill a Scout in two chestshots. Heavier classes in 4-5 hits.
lol?

You might as well delete the class if you do that
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Old 07-21-2010, 09:24 AM   #5
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U guys whine too much, sniper its already one of the worst classes as seen here from my servers. Only worst class not counting with medics and scouts is the spy in KDeath terms.
In tfc sniper was usefull in all maps! It was good in all ctf and in all avd, in ff its not usefull in any avd and just usefull in a few ctf maps like aarvdark, xpress and 2fort . Thats a fact.

And bridget i do play tf2 sometimes and i have to say that altought the zoom view is a lot smaller its actually much easier to aim there as a sniper because the slow pace and the big models.
In ff its kinda impossible to aim to the head except for hws when they are firing or no moving targets.

I want to whine too now about the soldier massive rocket splash damage increased because the hard cap thing that was introduced in 2,1 and removed in 2.2 but the uber spalsh is still there

Last edited by zE; 07-21-2010 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 07-21-2010, 11:06 AM   #6
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In tfc sniper was usefull in all maps! It was good in all ctf and in all avd, in ff its not usefull in any avd and just usefull in a few ctf maps like aarvdark, xpress and 2fort .
Pretty much. I played a bunch of AvD in TFC and when I used the sniper, it was primarily on offense for some of the longer stretches. He could really clear a path for people capping in taking out enemy demomen or sentry guns from a distance. In FF, the speeds are so fast and defense is weak enough now that there's not much point anymore. It's easier and faster to just run the flag until you cap. The defense strength just isn't there to warrant using the sniper as tactical support anymore.
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Old 07-21-2010, 01:24 PM   #7
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What does a class' kill to death ratio have to do with anything? The Scout is dead last on your list despite being arguably the most influential class in the game. Something can be broken without having to be useful and with a godlike K/D ratio. Back to Green Mushy's old example, if the devs implemented a class that could kill one player every thirty seconds from anywhere on the map in one hit but had 1 health, that class would arguably be broken given the unfair nature of how it kills people.

Okay, so it's hard to aim at the head. I understand that. I would have just suggested this makes the Sniper a counter to slow moving classes that can easily get shot in the head, but what do you suggest? Here's some more ideas:

1. Damage Rampup/Falloff (Bell Curve) 2. Ineffective at close range and long range 3. Does best when target is at a distance (medium range eg aardvark top of ramp to bottom) 4. Can only do best damage when zoomed in 5. Rifle automatically charges when zoomed in 6. Charge only takes 2.5 seconds now 7. Full charge kills a Scout in one hit. 8. Sniper's speed is reduced to near stationary speeds when zoomed in 9. Noscopes do 25-50% damage of base damage 10. Sniper can fire while airborne with noscopes 11. Charge slowly decays after x seconds of staying zoomed in.

Damage approximations? Maybe something like:

-> Scout (Aardvark ramp bottom to aardvark ramp bottom) 6 full charges
-> Scout (Aardvark ramp bottom to mid-map) 1 full charges
-> Scout (Aardvark top ramp, both players) 6 full charges

-> Heavy (Aardvark ramp bottom to aardvark ramp bottom) 8 full charges
-> Heavy (Aardvark ramp bottom to mid-map) 3 full charges
-> Heavy (Aardvark top ramp, both players) 8 full charges

This is probably an odd idea. The Sniper is defined informally as a ranged fighter. The rifle's damage falls off at long range because long range capabilities for one class while every other class is limited to medium to close range capabilities is inconsistent and unfair. The rifle's damage has to ramp up from close range to be most effective at medium range, this is to prevent the Sniper from dominating at close range and having no incentive to keep his distance. This also allows players a way to counter the Sniper once they get close given how the Sniper will be taking shots at them at range when they're ineffective.

I suggested the decaying charge after x seconds because I think this would encourage Snipers to be mobile, roaming around at a distance looking for enemies. They would then quick-scope, charge, and fire. I think a lot of people dislike seeing Snipers just standing there with their scope up peeking around the map with a full charge ready to kill someone in one hit. It doesn't make sense in a fast-paced mobile game like Fortress Forever. I mean, shit, even the Snipers in Call of Duty are more mobile than FF Snipers. I also suggest the following:

1. Give the Sniper more health and armor. His weakness should now be built directly into his Sniper Rifle. His auto-rifle should be significantly weak at close range, but coupled with fragmentation grenades, he should be able to defend himself if he gets the jump on the enemy. 2. Give the Sniper a secondary grenade. The one that makes sense here is some sort of snare or trap. My idea for this is the Sniper throws out a bear trap that snaps open whenever it hits something and then falls to the ground. It has a very short life and a very short range. If the enemy steps on it, his movement speed is reduced as if he were legshot and he takes damage over time if he moves. If the snare hits an enemy while moving through the air, it merely latches on and deals damage over time. An accuracy based grenade? Oh lawd 3. Give the Sniper Rifle some light on the weapon that changes color depending upon the distance of the enemy it's pointed at. If it's dark red, it tells the user that his shots will be doing low damage. If it's yellow, the damage is potentially harmful. If it's green, then the target is at the ideal distance to take full damage. I think this adds some sort of depth to the game, a class that is encouraged to close huge distances while being encouraged to keep some distance for the best shot. Instead of Snipers running into spawn, they would be forced to get closer to the enemy or wait for him to fall into the ideal range to increase their damage output, which also gives the enemy a better chance to fight back.

Meh, probably a stupid and/or counter-intuitive idea, but at-least I don't complain about things without trying to consider ways to fix or improve them.

Last edited by Bridget; 07-21-2010 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 07-21-2010, 01:40 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Bridget View Post
What does a class' kill to death ratio have to do with anything? The Scout is dead last on your list despite being arguably the most influential class in the game.
As i sayd im my post im not counting with scouts, because scout job is to get flags and not to dm, i think thats logic.

Even if sniper was the same as tfc, it would be worse because the uber fast pace wich makes a lot harder to aim. And you want to make it even worse : p

Im pointing that sniper is the worst defensive class, and tbh briget i see u lately in tf2 24/7 so why are u whining here : P

Last edited by Elmo; 07-21-2010 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:54 PM   #9
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wow those are some bad snipers on your server lol
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Old 07-21-2010, 08:05 PM   #10
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I blame the low KDR on sniper wars.
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Old 07-21-2010, 10:00 PM   #11
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The problem is killing a sniper impedes you more than it does them, as most sniping points are very close to the spawn. And a lot of snipers are total rubbish, so that's bound to drive the KDR down. And KDR is totally irrelevant to the fact that all the other classes have to get close to get their kills, whereas the sniper can just stand back and pick people off from a distance, fearing only other snipers.
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Old 07-21-2010, 10:07 PM   #12
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SNIPERS = STATISTS
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Old 07-21-2010, 10:43 PM   #13
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i've long argued to abolish the deaths column, imo it's irrelevant.
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Old 07-22-2010, 12:10 PM   #14
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i've long argued to abolish the deaths column, imo it's irrelevant.
I agree with this.
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Old 07-24-2010, 02:20 PM   #15
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its all about cappin the flag... do it or gtfo

ps. Bridget - stop posting TF2 videos... noone wants to see that garbage.

Last edited by Lynus; 07-24-2010 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 07-25-2010, 09:12 AM   #16
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How about making the sniper rifle shoot out a projectile like the spy's traq and remove the charging? It keeps the sniper useful at long range but gives the target a better chance to dodge. It also makes the sniper rifle more likely to hit at short range giving snipers an incentive to move away from their spawn. While this would make the sniper less useful against scouts and medics, it would make them useful against slower classes like the soldier, demo, etc.
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