11-22-2014, 09:25 AM | #1 |
FF Loremaster
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CS:GO and FF's future.
I put this in gaming because it isn't directly about FF and having it on the general discussion area isn't the best idea for FF.
Here in the next few weeks/months we will be experiencing an apocalypse of epic gaming proportions that will ripple down the history of competitive gaming for a very long time. To summarize what's going on, the Steam Workshop allows players to download any hack without having to do anything. Here's a breakdown of how this works from the hack creators side.
Here's what it looks like from the players side:
This has been going on for as long as the Steam Workshop has existed. Further, because of the nature of these hacks (auto update via steam), they are incredibly hard to detect. Even further, this is extremely similar to what some players were doing when they went to LAN parties or tournaments before the Steam Workshop and it's why some tournaments require you use the mice, keyboards, and headsets they provide. So, how does this tie in to the future of FF? Although FF will be moving to a new engine, this game should not have any sort of non-map user content creation. That is to say, if the U4 engine has the ability to have a Steam Workshop styled thing, don't do it. Don't allow Steam Workshop to be a thing with this mod. Don't allow the Steam Workshop to be a thing with Source 2. Do not allow leagues to host your game if they don't actively work against hackers (I'm looking at UCG). Actively seek out those who are not on the up-and-up. The days of the auto-snap aimbot are long, long gone. The modern face of hacking is very clever and very subtle. No game has been exempt from it, and FF was not exception. We will see in the next few months the face of online competitive gaming, at least in FPS, change dramatically.
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11-22-2014, 10:04 AM | #2 |
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TL;DR version:
Cheaters be cheating, except this time it's the end of the world, and we can't have nice things anymore. Except for not really, chill out.
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11-22-2014, 06:25 PM | #3 |
Fortress Forever Staff
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Until valve just starts noticing and bans all the accounts, because they run steam workshop and probably have all the data they need.
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11-23-2014, 08:35 AM | #4 | ||
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Quote:
Here's some fun reading. http://www.hltv.org/blog/8956-the-tr...ng-bread-cheat Quote:
It's really ingenious. It's also a pay for a certain amount of time sort of thing. The entire process is very intricate and not brute-force like most other hacks.
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11-23-2014, 12:11 PM | #5 |
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This is only important in CS:GO because it's professional players that are likely cheating at LAN event with prize pools of $250K.
There's very little incentive to cheat at FF. No one will be wasting their time making cheats for FF that operate in this manner. Why? Because there are no FF LAN events and there are no prize pools of $10 let alone $250K. Also, this is basically just a regurgitation of the /r/GlobalOffensive thread.
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11-23-2014, 12:33 PM | #6 |
Fortress Forever Staff
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reading that thread, there were a few top players using a complex cheat, and they got found out and VAC banned, along with their 2 digit steamID accounts worth £10k
Doesn't sound like cheaters are winning to me. Anyone who wants to code a cheat purely for FF would probably be better off joining the dev team and coding features for the game instead.. |
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11-23-2014, 06:49 PM | #7 |
Nade Whore
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I thought all the 1 and 2 digit accounts were basically all Valve employees/developers.
In any case, this likely will have 0 effect on FF, even if there is some major spark in play once released on Steam and Steam Workshop is open, I really doubt much will come of it. I understand there are much more subtle ways for someone to cheat these days, so as to avoid detection, but I'm of the opinion that if you are clever enough to not get caught with a cheat, then who really cares? In the grand scheme of things, it's just a video game. Though I'd probably cheat too if I knew I had a decent chance at a $250k prize pool in CS:GO hah, but I'm probably at the opposite of the skill spectrum and cheats would not help me at all. |
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11-23-2014, 07:24 PM | #8 | |
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Quote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNcOqUa93B4#t=592 All of these are the same player. We saw this very behavior in this game with leagues, yet, UGC did nothing and anytime it was brought up the person bringing it out was considered a scrub. I do not agree that it's only a CS:GO issue. CS:GO is simply a very large game that, unfortunately, shares the same anti-cheat that FF does. Mainly, the point of the thread isn't to go "SEE, CHEATERS HAPPEN AND IT'S BAD", it's more to expose the how of it all. Here's some more reading. http://www.hltv.org/blog/8956-the-tr...ng-bread-cheat http://www.hltv.org/blog/8959-the-tr...for-him-and-me
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11-23-2014, 08:28 PM | #9 | ||
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It's more about how you made it seem like the end of the world and that we should completely avoid any non-map workshop integration because of it. That's just absurd.
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11-23-2014, 08:40 PM | #10 | |||
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UIT
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As for FF, which league? Season 1? People brought it up all the time I'm pretty sure. Gator and his clan were getting accused all the time. Lots of people from TFC didn't want to play FF because tons of people from TheCatacombs banned list were playing FF. Now, People don't bring up cheating often because if you ban one person you can't play a pickup for the next month. You'd know that if you even played. Quote:
It's cool you bring it up, but it's not a concern for FF now. Especially since there are easier ways to cheat in FF.
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11-27-2014, 01:58 AM | #11 |
internet user
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on a side note since we're a free mod i highly doubt workshop contributors could monetize even if we used workshop?
and yea, anyway even if someone cheats- they either get bored and leave or get banned if its something obvious/eventually. its already happen(ed)(ing)(inging)
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11-27-2014, 02:17 AM | #12 |
Nade Whore
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Can the workshop allow free things to be installed? If so, that might work as a decent place to host custom maps/other files rather than having to use the forums, pickup site or gamebanana.
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11-27-2014, 04:33 PM | #13 | |
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Quote:
It is completely designed to be what you just asked. (Also, what do you mean by free things? Everything's free on Steam Workshop. I'd assume you were confused by credge saying people bought into the hack, which will have been them being added to a private Workshop listing.) Garry's Mod uses it so that if you connect to a server on a custom map / gamemode, it'll download that map from Steam Workshop if it's been correctly set up. This means maps are quicker to download, because Valve's large serverbase is sending the file rather than your own file server.
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11-27-2014, 07:18 PM | #14 |
Nade Whore
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Ok cool. That brings up another question. If most of these hacks are found using private workshop files, is there an option to disable private workshop so only the public ones are available?
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11-27-2014, 10:43 PM | #15 |
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Did not know much about workshop, but if custom maps can be auto dl'ed from there that sure will be useful for future server owners, at the mo maps for my servers dl to clients from Moto's hosting, which is very kind as saves me a lot of hassle
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12-26-2014, 07:07 AM | #16 |
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The biggest CS:GO VACation occured. 1,500 players. Pretty much every person I tracked is now banned. It is a good feeling.
It does not make me feel good about the future of competitive FPS though.
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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" Ronald Reagan Last edited by Credge; 12-26-2014 at 07:08 AM. |
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12-26-2014, 07:22 PM | #17 | |
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When you go gambling, you don't let people bring their own cards, dice, slot machines, etc.
Watch, in order to prevent cheating, you won't be allowed to bring your own machine. You'll be given a few minutes to configure the game to your liking, but otherwise, stock. I'd even bet the USB ports will be locked. $250k is a lot of fucking money, you'd think the people in charge would have more sense.
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01-04-2015, 10:15 AM | #18 | |
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The amount of times I was up until 4am tediously going through every minute of gator or vinny's matches is ridiculous and that all was verified by another admin, ALWAYS. There have always been wall hacks and aimbots as well...even back when I was active...
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01-04-2015, 11:41 AM | #19 | |
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Lots of people want to make lazy accusations for cheating, but don't really understand that it's kind of hard to compile any evidence unless it's super blatant or the user makes clear indications / mistakes. What happens now in FF is lots of baseless accusations without any evidence. If you can't get the evidence then you can't convict somebody of doing anything wrong. Basically, just going through and trying to compile evidence is the biggest hurdle for any admin of a league. Players may not think the admins are doing anything, but they are; it's just not readily visible. It would be a worse environment if admins just started banning people with no evidence and purely word of mouth backing. I guess that's pretty off-topic from the original post, but FF isn't in really much of a position to have workshop injected hacks enter the scene.
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01-04-2015, 09:54 PM | #20 |
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I'd be so happy if there were premium hacks for Fortress Forever.
Just means we made it baby. |
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