Why do people hate the 2.0 AC?

Arvingorn · 05-14-2008, 01:22 AM

So, yeah. I'm just wondering why people bitch about how it sucks now.

**squeek.** · 05-14-2008, 01:23 AM

Because it sucks.

Gator- · 05-14-2008, 01:26 AM

b/c it made the heavy useless

**squeek.** · 05-14-2008, 01:28 AM

There are a couple threads floating around about it, but heres one:

http://www.fortress-forever.com/foru...ad.php?t=15242

Arvingorn · 05-14-2008, 01:37 AM

I heard from one player in-game that the AC has a crappy CoF now, but I love (non-homo) how the overheating thing has been taken away. Thanks!

myersjr · 05-14-2008, 03:24 PM

Really, its all about his range and accuracy. If he's up close, lethal..if he 's not..he's rather useless..poor accuracy, poor range..i used to be a big fan of the heavy in TFC..but this FF version, he's never felt quite right..wish i could describe why but i cant..

Innoc · 05-14-2008, 03:32 PM

I think like everything there's going to be some for and against. Perhaps it's a balance thing? I am pretty sure there were a couple people irritated with me on Push and Pigskin last night. I did hear some chatter about AC-induced lag but I didn't see it myself.

**Crazycarl** · 05-14-2008, 03:42 PM

I like it fine. You just have to take a good position if you want to survive. Motherfuckers keep throwing ALL their grenades at me.

Hammock · 05-14-2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by myersjr

Really, its all about his range and accuracy. If he's up close, lethal..if he 's not..he's rather useless..poor accuracy, poor range..i used to be a big fan of the heavy in TFC..but this FF version, he's never felt quite right..wish i could describe why but i cant..

Also the fact that it's slow to adjust to long range/short range. Or I should say reverse of that. From short range to long range.

When someone get's by you, you have to stop firing to lower your ROF just to lower your COF to keep your accuracy up. So once someone get's by you, it's pretty hard to make a kill.

Dr.Satan · 05-14-2008, 04:16 PM

I think the main issue with the AC is that the slow RoF and large CoF make it very difficult to start hitting something until it's right on top of you. Combine that with the skimming speeds that your seeing in 2.0 and the overall speed of all the classes and you simply have no stopping power. IF you give the HW a CoF small enough to matter then you give him almost a hitscan AC b/c it would have to be that small to be able to effectively trace people and actually kill them. On top of that your speed is very slow so trying to catch the ones that make it by is very difficult as well. So we need to look at reducing the skimming speeds and bhopping, then he will be more effective.

So it's not so much that it sucks, but more that it's not balanced well with the other classes and overall gameplay. It's more effective to just go engy and put up an Sg b/c it doesn't have the same issues the fatty does (speed, distance, etc) where as in TFC it was the opposite.

Innoc · 05-14-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Satan

I think the main issue with the AC is that the slow RoF and large CoF make it very difficult to start hitting something until it's right on top of you. Combine that with the skimming speeds that your seeing in 2.0 and the overall speed of all the classes and you simply have no stopping power. IF you give the HW a CoF small enough to matter then you give him almost a hitscan AC b/c it would have to be that small to be able to effectively trace people and actually kill them.

On top of that your speed is very slow. So it's not so much that it sucks, but more that it's not balanced well with the other classes and overall gameplay. It's more effective to just go engy and put up an Sg where as in TFC it was the opposite.

But isn't that part of class balancing...whether intentional or unintentional? It seems to me that you don't want the HWG capable of laying down mass destruction at long distances. As he is slow making him a brutal close quarters brawler makes alot of sense to me. On a map like pigskin when you combine the HWG with a scouts jump pad you have the ability to close distance with your opponents in a real hurry.

Dr.Satan · 05-14-2008, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innoc

But isn't that part of class balancing...whether intentional or unintentional? It seems to me that you don't want the HWG capable of laying down mass destruction at long distances. As he is slow making him a brutal close quarters brawler makes alot of sense to me. On a map like pigskin when you combine the HWG with a scouts jump pad you have the ability to close distance with your opponents in a real hurry.

It is...but the issue is that, currently with skimming and no hard cap, there is no way for a HW to stop any class. Everyone just flies by him. I think he should be effective in close range and not long, but if he can't even see the enemies at close range b/c they are going 1000+ ups then it's pretty worthless.

Agent Buckshot Moose · 05-14-2008, 05:11 PM

Then why not give him some noticeable pushback like had in TFC?

Lower the cone of fire and reward the HW who can aim by making his gun slow people down.

Whatever went on with the 1.11 HW Guy worked... maybe we should go back to that. Except without the overheating.

KubeDawg · 05-14-2008, 05:22 PM

I really liked the TFC version of the AC. That is one thing TFC got right on the money.

Hammock · 05-14-2008, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

I really liked the TFC version of the AC. That is one thing TFC got right on the money.

I agree, plain, simple and effective. I wish it would go back to that, and the HW was looked at in different ways to make more interesting.

myersjr · 05-14-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock

I agree, plain, simple and effective. I wish it would go back to that, and the HW was looked at in different ways to make more interesting.

+1

Bakez · 05-14-2008, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock

I agree, plain, simple and effective. I wish it would go back to that, and the HW was looked at in different ways to make more interesting.

Dr.Satan · 05-14-2008, 06:29 PM

Yeah there are a lot of things being tossed around / tested in beta right now to get the fatty (among other classes) at an even level with the rest of the classes.

myersjr · 05-14-2008, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Satan

Yeah there are a lot of things being tossed around / tested in beta right now to get the fatty (among other classes) at an even level with the rest of the classes.

At the very least, get him equal with his tfc counterpart, who was pretty deadly in most ranges..not invincible mind you but pretty deadly. Cuz he was still conc susceptible and slow..but hey, thats the heavy..

Dr.Satan · 05-14-2008, 09:03 PM

yep that is what we are trying to achieve.

05-14-2008, 01:22 AM	#1
Arvingorn Angry, angry Spy Join Date: Mar 2008 Class/Position: Turtle Engie Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Why do people hate the 2.0 AC? So, yeah. I'm just wondering why people bitch about how it sucks now.

05-14-2008, 01:23 AM	#2
squeek. Stuff Do-er Lua Team Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern California Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait) Affiliations: Mustache Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 352 Times	Because it sucks. __________________ #FF.Pickup ¤ Fortress-Forever pickups My Non-official Maps Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan. - Karl Pilkington

05-14-2008, 01:26 AM	#3
Gator- FF God Join Date: May 2007 Location: TX Class/Position: Scout O, Medic O, Demo D/O, Soldier D Gametype: CTF 4v4 Affiliations: [milkwood] ( GoodFellas ) Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	b/c it made the heavy useless __________________ FF_ROASTED_CLASSIC [RELEASED] FF_EVENFLOW_B2 [RELEASED] FF_OPPOSE_B1 [COMING SOON]

05-14-2008, 01:28 AM	#4
squeek. Stuff Do-er Lua Team Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern California Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait) Affiliations: Mustache Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 352 Times	There are a couple threads floating around about it, but heres one: http://www.fortress-forever.com/foru...ad.php?t=15242 __________________ #FF.Pickup ¤ Fortress-Forever pickups My Non-official Maps Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan. - Karl Pilkington

05-14-2008, 03:32 PM	#7
Innoc Hitman 2 1 Actual Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: "Oscar Mike" Gametype: FPS or RTS (just say NO to MMO) Affiliations: Your Mom Posts Rated Helpful 8 Times	I think like everything there's going to be some for and against. Perhaps it's a balance thing? I am pretty sure there were a couple people irritated with me on Push and Pigskin last night. I did hear some chatter about AC-induced lag but I didn't see it myself. __________________ Mooga on Obama: He can cut taxes. Actually do something useful. Punch Nancy Pelosi in the face. Just to name a few. You eventually run out of other people's money to spend.

05-14-2008, 01:37 AM	#5
Arvingorn Angry, angry Spy Join Date: Mar 2008 Class/Position: Turtle Engie Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I heard from one player in-game that the AC has a crappy CoF now, but I love (non-homo) how the overheating thing has been taken away. Thanks!

05-14-2008, 03:24 PM	#6
myersjr Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Really, its all about his range and accuracy. If he's up close, lethal..if he 's not..he's rather useless..poor accuracy, poor range..i used to be a big fan of the heavy in TFC..but this FF version, he's never felt quite right..wish i could describe why but i cant..

05-14-2008, 03:42 PM	#8
Crazycarl D&A Member Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 31 Times	I like it fine. You just have to take a good position if you want to survive. Motherfuckers keep throwing ALL their grenades at me. __________________ Support FF:

05-14-2008, 04:16 PM	#10
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	I think the main issue with the AC is that the slow RoF and large CoF make it very difficult to start hitting something until it's right on top of you. Combine that with the skimming speeds that your seeing in 2.0 and the overall speed of all the classes and you simply have no stopping power. IF you give the HW a CoF small enough to matter then you give him almost a hitscan AC b/c it would have to be that small to be able to effectively trace people and actually kill them. On top of that your speed is very slow so trying to catch the ones that make it by is very difficult as well. So we need to look at reducing the skimming speeds and bhopping, then he will be more effective. So it's not so much that it sucks, but more that it's not balanced well with the other classes and overall gameplay. It's more effective to just go engy and put up an Sg b/c it doesn't have the same issues the fatty does (speed, distance, etc) where as in TFC it was the opposite. __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

05-14-2008, 05:11 PM	#13
Agent Buckshot Moose Wiki Standards Team Wiki Team Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Geokill's closet Class/Position: Sniper/Demoman Gametype: CTF Affiliations: :e0: Co-leader Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times	Then why not give him some noticeable pushback like had in TFC? Lower the cone of fire and reward the HW who can aim by making his gun slow people down. Whatever went on with the 1.11 HW Guy worked... maybe we should go back to that. Except without the overheating.

05-14-2008, 05:22 PM	#14
KubeDawg Nade Whore Server Owner Beta Tester Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Oklahoma Class/Position: Scout/Soldier Gametype: CTF/TDM Affiliations: blunt. Moto Posts Rated Helpful 128 Times	I really liked the TFC version of the AC. That is one thing TFC got right on the money. __________________ Moto's Funhouse \| Dallas, TX - 74.91.114.247:27015 ff_plunder - Complete

05-14-2008, 06:29 PM	#18
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	Yeah there are a lot of things being tossed around / tested in beta right now to get the fatty (among other classes) at an even level with the rest of the classes. __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

05-14-2008, 09:03 PM	#20
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	yep that is what we are trying to achieve. __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

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