No one plays this mod anymore? - Page 6

**Crazycarl** · 05-15-2010, 04:11 PM

True. But that's what they are called all the same. It's yet another quirk we got from TFC.

Eon Seig · 05-15-2010, 05:04 PM

Frankly, I agree that the game has become way too fast to need a dedicated healer.
But really, the problem isn't just speed, it's how overall damage resistance is determined.

Armor is more useful than HP in almost every respect except that you die when HP goes to 0. As far as I can tell, dividing your damage resistance into different numbers devalues the Medic's healing and offers no real advantage over having pure HP.

As compensation for the Engineer, the Dispenser could eat medkits and then dispense them. Then Medics then have a semi-permanent place to store kits and provide a station for people to heal up, preventing offense medics from being slowed down a lot. Also, the melee healing would have to heal in percentile values or a flat rate, not a full heal. The current full heal would make Heavies invincible if you converted the total possible damage that their armor can absorb over to HP.

And before anyone even thinks about saying it, removing armor is not going to make FF into a TF2 clone. The "TF2 Defense" is not a good argument.

**Crazycarl** · 05-15-2010, 05:43 PM

Removing armor was a good move for TF2. It did away with needless complexity.

Humping a HWguy is going to get you killed pretty quickly, so it wouldn't be overpowered. If we gave him a limited number of 100% healing shots, that would really useful in the right hands. We need to fix melee detection, most of all.

If I was an offensive medic, I would not want to take the time to toss medkits into a dispenser. It would be better for it to generate health on its own.

Eon Seig · 05-15-2010, 06:14 PM

^ True. Dedicated medics only work in TF2 because medics have a ranged healing device that lets them keep clear of the line of fire to an extent.

And to me, the time it takes to spam 5 medkits into one spot is pretty damn short. I don't feel slowed down at all to throw a bunch of kits around as I pass by some heavy classes trying to O.

chilledsanity · 05-15-2010, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

If I was an offensive medic, I would not want to take the time to toss medkits into a dispenser. It would be better for it to generate health on its own.

It's RARE that I ever see a medic even DROP a medkit when I'm running in front of them yelling for one. I have to agree that this is a feature that would almost never get used (at least in pub play).

**Crazycarl** · 05-15-2010, 07:55 PM

More often then not, if I throw medkits while on the run, my teammates ignore them.

Scuzzy · 05-15-2010, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eon Seig

^ True. Dedicated medics only work in TF2 because medics have a ranged healing device that lets them keep clear of the line of fire to an extent.

And to me, the time it takes to spam 5 medkits into one spot is pretty damn short. I don't feel slowed down at all to throw a bunch of kits around as I pass by some heavy classes trying to O.

The question isn't "why aren't FF medics not working like TF2 medics", the question is, "why aren't they working like TFC medics."

**squeek.** · 05-15-2010, 10:47 PM

And the difference is...?

Infection spreading? I can point you to quite a few posts that will answer your question in that regard. What other differences are there between the TFC and FF medic?

Raynian · 05-16-2010, 02:20 AM

*TFC's medics were technically combat medics, if you looked. Sure, technically the same thing, but I guess the name was a bit more accurate.

They're fine as it is. Tossed medkits are great (if not overpowered), and you can spam them if you're near dead bodies or dispensers (medkits use 10 cells, so 1 body = 3 medkits). You need to know WHEN to heal manually. Waiting for a jump pad that's going up? Give the scout a 20-25 HP boost. Trailing behind a heavier class in pubs, throw them some HP. Even in pickups, it sometime helps to have that extra 50 HP from a medic.

Example, on ff_reloaded_b1 the other day, exo runs past me to elevator with 150% HP as scout, I deal some damage to him, but he still gets the flag out (with little health remaining I believe). Sure, it might have slowed him and the medic that charged him down a few seconds, but it got them a cap. Sweet. I love seeing that stuff happen.

D medic in pubs. Together with an engi, they can keep anybody on their feet for a long, long time. Especially on maps like well, with a huge FR that's practically made for defense in public servers, they're amazing. Totally underrated.

tl;dr - lrn2medicnewbz

grinningmongoose · 05-16-2010, 07:08 AM

Really it would be nice to end the conc fest.

HWGuy needs more bite to take down scouts flying past him.

I don't believe the game will be unbalanced if medic can partially restore armor, infact it would give more of a reason to have a defensive medic.

What is likely making this game undesirable is the conc offense. It feels like the same strategy is always played out in CTF. 3-5 scouts or medics conc around...

Perhaps what made TFC fun was the team effort of having Heavies, Soldiers, Demos, and Spies all clash together... a scout here, a medic there...

**squeek.** · 05-16-2010, 08:36 AM

You seem to have been playing a different TFC than I was.

WarPig · 05-16-2010, 01:30 PM

Medics on D? How dare anyone even consider this as a thought , you should shoot yourself.

In a pub server it happens it's accepted, BUT when you break it down to what classes are DESIGNED to play O and D it's a large frustration to have a medic roaming on D.

Why ? Because of a spy issue constantly asking or checking for spy when it shouldn't be needed, im sure this is only a long term player issue as in most will agree this is being use to seeing them only on O. I still stand by it tho annoying to see them on D, and for those who think a med on D is needed to help D stay up longer... you missed the entire Team fortress classic gaming era.

Raynian · 05-16-2010, 02:07 PM

What?

The medic will never really leave the vision of the defenders. Once they get used to him being around, they'll do the obvious one or two shotties to spy check (as they would do to ANYONE, regardless of class), but that's it.

He's got nearly as much firepower as any of the pure defense classes, and more speed, some regen, and he can heal others. Sure, a 4-medics defense sucks. No shit, Sherlock. But one medic can really strengthen a good team.

If you're pissed because there's a good D medic stopping your offense, grow a pair.

WarPig · 05-17-2010, 03:50 AM

first of all if you wanna get personal and try to flame go ahead , it only makes you look the ass.

Next up I never mentioned once I played O and had an issue with a D medic, infact if I play O and a team is running a D medic I laugh because it only makes my job to cap easier.

lemme break this down for you and that small brain so you can understand what I said because clearly you did not read it or you cannot understand.
Classes in Fortress gaming can take on new roles of course, are they normal or ideal.. NO! In a pub server normally almost every server you go to its lopsides ALL D other team HALF D with 2 running O... [sarcasm] yea a D medic is amazing and so fun it works well when everyone is stacked on D with only 2 incoming... [/sarcasm]

NOW onto Reality of what MOST of the community here comes from with TFC and League play etc and moving into FF and that format.

Why do you see most everyone play a heavier class on D? Because it is designed to be that way and for 10+ years now has worked without using a D medic I see no real point coming from anyone on how valuable it is other than a "push" "scrummage" style maps or A & D.

Can they heal defenders ? yes
Do they have stopping power? Not really.

you wish to argue more perhaps ? lets clearify ...

HW - Stopping power primary weapon
Demo - Stoping power.
Engi - Shotty + Sentry + dispenser = Stopping power
Solly - Rockets? STOPPING POWER.

medic - shotgun ? nailgun ? some nades maybe ?

wasted spot and wasted thought, again great idea any command point maps or pushing style .. as for CFT its a retarded idea and should never be thought of.

Conclusion - This isn't TF2, Medics are not Ideal but can assist to heal D if its needed, and for over 10 years it's been fine do your research on Fortress gaming before telling others their "newbz" at a class.

Raynian · 05-17-2010, 04:42 AM

u mad?

**Dexter** · 05-17-2010, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raynian

u mad?

no need to troll here

WarPig · 05-17-2010, 03:40 PM

Not mad at all, more like feeling sorry for you. ANYWAY
back on to topic...

Raynian · 05-17-2010, 06:54 PM

lolololololol

Eon Seig · 05-18-2010, 12:53 AM

Oh yeah, an on-topic response to the question.

He asked if no one is playing anymore. My response is appropriate.

WiFiDi · 05-18-2010, 10:21 AM

what needs to happen for this game to get more users is advertising, a new engine this game is to good to be a mod if you really want more people you have to move it from a mod to a game that is downloadable without using source. i would pay for this, 1-2 dollars maybe but if the graphics were better i might pay more.

05-15-2010, 05:04 PM	#102
Eon Seig AaaaaaaTATATATATATATATA! Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Florida Class/Position: Pyro Scout Soldier / Offense Gametype: CTF/AvD Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Frankly, I agree that the game has become way too fast to need a dedicated healer. But really, the problem isn't just speed, it's how overall damage resistance is determined. Armor is more useful than HP in almost every respect except that you die when HP goes to 0. As far as I can tell, dividing your damage resistance into different numbers devalues the Medic's healing and offers no real advantage over having pure HP. As compensation for the Engineer, the Dispenser could eat medkits and then dispense them. Then Medics then have a semi-permanent place to store kits and provide a station for people to heal up, preventing offense medics from being slowed down a lot. Also, the melee healing would have to heal in percentile values or a flat rate, not a full heal. The current full heal would make Heavies invincible if you converted the total possible damage that their armor can absorb over to HP. And before anyone even thinks about saying it, removing armor is not going to make FF into a TF2 clone. The "TF2 Defense" is not a good argument. Last edited by Eon Seig; 05-15-2010 at 05:06 PM.

05-15-2010, 10:47 PM	#108
squeek. Stuff Do-er Lua Team Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern California Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait) Affiliations: Mustache Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 352 Times	And the difference is...? Infection spreading? I can point you to quite a few posts that will answer your question in that regard. What other differences are there between the TFC and FF medic? __________________ #FF.Pickup ¤ Fortress-Forever pickups My Non-official Maps Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan. - Karl Pilkington

05-16-2010, 02:20 AM	#109
Raynian D&A Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ruining #pickups Class/Position: SPAWN CAMPING OH NO Gametype: Ragequitting Affiliations: [PMS]. [Shiney] Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times	TFC's medics were technically combat medics, if you looked. Sure, technically the same thing, but I guess the name was a bit more accurate. They're fine as it is. Tossed medkits are great (if not overpowered), and you can spam them if you're near dead bodies or dispensers (medkits use 10 cells, so 1 body = 3 medkits). You need to know WHEN to heal manually. Waiting for a jump pad that's going up? Give the scout a 20-25 HP boost. Trailing behind a heavier class in pubs, throw them some HP. Even in pickups, it sometime helps to have that extra 50 HP from a medic. Example, on ff_reloaded_b1 the other day, exo runs past me to elevator with 150% HP as scout, I deal some damage to him, but he still gets the flag out (with little health remaining I believe). Sure, it might have slowed him and the medic that charged him down a few seconds, but it got them a cap. Sweet. I love seeing that stuff happen. D medic in pubs. Together with an engi, they can keep anybody on their feet for a long, long time. Especially on maps like well, with a huge FR that's practically made for defense in public servers, they're amazing. Totally underrated. tl;dr - lrn2medicnewbz Last edited by Raynian; 05-16-2010 at 02:20 AM.*

05-16-2010, 07:08 AM	#110
grinningmongoose Join Date: Apr 2009 Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Really it would be nice to end the conc fest. HWGuy needs more bite to take down scouts flying past him. I don't believe the game will be unbalanced if medic can partially restore armor, infact it would give more of a reason to have a defensive medic. What is likely making this game undesirable is the conc offense. It feels like the same strategy is always played out in CTF. 3-5 scouts or medics conc around... Perhaps what made TFC fun was the team effort of having Heavies, Soldiers, Demos, and Spies all clash together... a scout here, a medic there... Last edited by grinningmongoose; 05-16-2010 at 07:10 AM.

05-16-2010, 08:36 AM	#111
squeek. Stuff Do-er Lua Team Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Northern California Class/Position: Rallygun Shooter Gametype: Conc tag (you just wait) Affiliations: Mustache Brigade Posts Rated Helpful 352 Times	You seem to have been playing a different TFC than I was. __________________ #FF.Pickup ¤ Fortress-Forever pickups My Non-official Maps Released FF_DM_Squeek - FF_2Mesa3_Classic - FF_Siege_Classic Beta FF_Myth - FF_Redlight_Greenlight Sick of the people on the internet, always moanin'. They just moan. - Karl Pilkington Last edited by squeek.; 05-16-2010 at 08:36 AM.

05-15-2010, 04:11 PM	#101
Crazycarl D&A Member Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 31 Times	True. But that's what they are called all the same. It's yet another quirk we got from TFC.

05-15-2010, 05:43 PM	#103
Crazycarl D&A Member Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 31 Times	Removing armor was a good move for TF2. It did away with needless complexity. Humping a HWguy is going to get you killed pretty quickly, so it wouldn't be overpowered. If we gave him a limited number of 100% healing shots, that would really useful in the right hands. We need to fix melee detection, most of all. If I was an offensive medic, I would not want to take the time to toss medkits into a dispenser. It would be better for it to generate health on its own.

05-15-2010, 06:14 PM	#104
Eon Seig AaaaaaaTATATATATATATATA! Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Florida Class/Position: Pyro Scout Soldier / Offense Gametype: CTF/AvD Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	^ True. Dedicated medics only work in TF2 because medics have a ranged healing device that lets them keep clear of the line of fire to an extent. And to me, the time it takes to spam 5 medkits into one spot is pretty damn short. I don't feel slowed down at all to throw a bunch of kits around as I pass by some heavy classes trying to O.

05-15-2010, 07:55 PM	#106
Crazycarl D&A Member Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 31 Times	More often then not, if I throw medkits while on the run, my teammates ignore them.

05-16-2010, 01:30 PM	#112
WarPig ThE O h G r Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: NY 315 Class/Position: Engi/HW/Pyro - Defender Gametype: Capture the Flag Affiliations: Pigs of War/ [AE] Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Medics on D? How dare anyone even consider this as a thought , you should shoot yourself. In a pub server it happens it's accepted, BUT when you break it down to what classes are DESIGNED to play O and D it's a large frustration to have a medic roaming on D. Why ? Because of a spy issue constantly asking or checking for spy when it shouldn't be needed, im sure this is only a long term player issue as in most will agree this is being use to seeing them only on O. I still stand by it tho annoying to see them on D, and for those who think a med on D is needed to help D stay up longer... you missed the entire Team fortress classic gaming era.

05-16-2010, 02:07 PM	#113
Raynian D&A Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ruining #pickups Class/Position: SPAWN CAMPING OH NO Gametype: Ragequitting Affiliations: [PMS]. [Shiney] Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times	What? The medic will never really leave the vision of the defenders. Once they get used to him being around, they'll do the obvious one or two shotties to spy check (as they would do to ANYONE, regardless of class), but that's it. He's got nearly as much firepower as any of the pure defense classes, and more speed, some regen, and he can heal others. Sure, a 4-medics defense sucks. No shit, Sherlock. But one medic can really strengthen a good team. If you're pissed because there's a good D medic stopping your offense, grow a pair.

05-17-2010, 03:50 AM	#114
WarPig ThE O h G r Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: NY 315 Class/Position: Engi/HW/Pyro - Defender Gametype: Capture the Flag Affiliations: Pigs of War/ [AE] Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	first of all if you wanna get personal and try to flame go ahead , it only makes you look the ass. Next up I never mentioned once I played O and had an issue with a D medic, infact if I play O and a team is running a D medic I laugh because it only makes my job to cap easier. lemme break this down for you and that small brain so you can understand what I said because clearly you did not read it or you cannot understand. Classes in Fortress gaming can take on new roles of course, are they normal or ideal.. NO! In a pub server normally almost every server you go to its lopsides ALL D other team HALF D with 2 running O... [sarcasm] yea a D medic is amazing and so fun it works well when everyone is stacked on D with only 2 incoming... [/sarcasm] NOW onto Reality of what MOST of the community here comes from with TFC and League play etc and moving into FF and that format. Why do you see most everyone play a heavier class on D? Because it is designed to be that way and for 10+ years now has worked without using a D medic I see no real point coming from anyone on how valuable it is other than a "push" "scrummage" style maps or A & D. Can they heal defenders ? yes Do they have stopping power? Not really. you wish to argue more perhaps ? lets clearify ... HW - Stopping power primary weapon Demo - Stoping power. Engi - Shotty + Sentry + dispenser = Stopping power Solly - Rockets? STOPPING POWER. medic - shotgun ? nailgun ? some nades maybe ? wasted spot and wasted thought, again great idea any command point maps or pushing style .. as for CFT its a retarded idea and should never be thought of. Conclusion - This isn't TF2, Medics are not Ideal but can assist to heal D if its needed, and for over 10 years it's been fine do your research on Fortress gaming before telling others their "newbz" at a class.

05-17-2010, 04:42 AM	#115
Raynian D&A Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ruining #pickups Class/Position: SPAWN CAMPING OH NO Gametype: Ragequitting Affiliations: [PMS]. [Shiney] Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times	u mad?

05-17-2010, 03:40 PM	#117
WarPig ThE O h G r Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: NY 315 Class/Position: Engi/HW/Pyro - Defender Gametype: Capture the Flag Affiliations: Pigs of War/ [AE] Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Not mad at all, more like feeling sorry for you. ANYWAY back on to topic...

05-17-2010, 06:54 PM	#118
Raynian D&A Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ruining #pickups Class/Position: SPAWN CAMPING OH NO Gametype: Ragequitting Affiliations: [PMS]. [Shiney] Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times	lolololololol

05-18-2010, 12:53 AM	#119
Eon Seig AaaaaaaTATATATATATATATA! Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Florida Class/Position: Pyro Scout Soldier / Offense Gametype: CTF/AvD Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Oh yeah, an on-topic response to the question. He asked if no one is playing anymore. My response is appropriate. Last edited by Eon Seig; 05-18-2010 at 12:55 AM.

05-18-2010, 10:21 AM	#120
WiFiDi Beta Tester Join Date: May 2010 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: Capture the Flag is there any other Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times	what needs to happen for this game to get more users is advertising, a new engine this game is to good to be a mod if you really want more people you have to move it from a mod to a game that is downloadable without using source. i would pay for this, 1-2 dollars maybe but if the graphics were better i might pay more.

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