Spy Discussion (NOT TROLLING)

[SuperDude]

Just curious if anyone knows when the spies are going to get some improvements. It's been awhile after the removal of the Gas. Making it extremely hard to compete vs the scout and medic in pickups. But I just learned to adjust and deal with it for now. I raged pretty hard yes, and quit for awhile. Because honestly it gimped the Spy hardcore..

Right now I do about 10 to 15 less runs then a medic, which isn't bad considering the amount of damage I deal to the defense and annoyance. Question is.. why not just play medic? The only reason I do well is because of my DM ability. So why perform less runs as a spy? In my eyes I know it's less effective and sometimes people whine about it. "How about you go medic SD, it's faster blah blah blah"

I will say a class that relies on hitting your tranqs is not a reliable offensive choice. (Although when your're on your tranq game you can make spoon ragequit) Spy needs a backup escape. Spy needs a benefit for it's team... Giving your team a chance to escape by disorienting the enemy. Gas nades also forced the defense to adjust opening new areas of attack for the offense. Trade-off was gas does effect your team. Medics conc/ heal/ infect. Scouts /conc/ jumppad. Now what does a spy put on the table? He's slow, can knife if you get close! Cloak is to slow, Sabotage equipment near impossible, and tranq guys if he knows how to AIM! Not whats needed in a pickup good Sirs. Tranq is great, but unreliable.

I doubt the gas nades are coming back, because supposedly it made spies to powerful, which isn't the case considering the 10 to 15 few runs less you do per game. Spies need to be able to perform effectively with each run and add a benefit to their team. Taking away their best asset. Was a slap in the face for the spy class.

I'm not trolling just telling the truth from always playing spy and seeing nothing being done to improve the class. FF is a great game I really do enjoy playing, which is why I'm trying to design some new maps for the community. Cannon_b5 will be out tomorrow and I think the pickups will enjoy this version even more.

[XPelargos]

Agreed.

Look, SD, if we want an offensive class, it needs to have MOVEMENT capabilities, and spy has none of that.

Sabotage is 100% worthless in any slightly organized game.

Give.

Spy.

Hookshot.

Just please fucking do it.

Give. Spy. A grappling hook.

K Thx.

[KubeDawg]

Hookshot is ghey. Just sayin. Plz no to spyderman. Plz yes to smoke nade that makes spy invisible within the smoke and yes to a faster spy.

Sabotaging is not useless if you know what you are doing. There needs to be a better interface when you sabotage a buildable instead of the dull meter that fills up. There needs to be a better explanation of this feature to new players so they even know it is a feature in the game. A lot of special abilities each class possess are unknown to new people unless they just find out about them indirectly through just playing the game. I believe we need a more direct approach to how these abilities are used and presented when a player selects a class.

For example, the spies sabotage could use something similar to how TF2 sabotaging works, with a device you actually attach to the buildable that hacks it. I believe there needs to be a gun used to heal and infect for the medic rather than a melee weapon to heal which is completely outdated and useless and that replaces the half-assed attempt that is the toss-able medkits. I'm not talking about the TF2 healing gun. I'm talking a mid-ranged weapon that shoots projectiles that when it hits a teammate, it heals them and when hitting an enemy, it infects them. It would need to be different than the current infection obviously but then again it'd be a completely different tool in the Medic's arsenal. When do you see the use of tossable med packs outside of a pickup or by those who do not play pickups?

I also believe we need to start thinking about better balancing the speed of certain classes. The scout is amazingly fast in this game and it can be daunting for newer players to keep up. Hell, I come across more seasoned players who still have issues killing scouts than I do with new players. Now I'm not suggesting we cut to TFC or TF2 speeds for scout, but something slower that people can actually feel like they have a chance to defend their objective.

Spy should be faster than all classes except for Medic/Scout. Currently the spy uses the same speed as the Engi and Sniper with only a slight speed increase over the Demoman.

Scout needs a primary grenade and Spy & Sniper need a secondary grenade.

Civilian needs the tommygun. That is all for now.

[XPelargos]

Agreed on slight speed boost.

But SD is right in a pickup setting that sabotage is useless.

Hookshot code from QWTF would be weird, but a hookshot that swing so you can telegraph your movement would be fine.