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View Poll Results: Is the current Laser Grenade too strong?
Yes 20 51.28%
No 19 48.72%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-21-2011, 09:35 PM   #1
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Laser Grenade - Too Strong?

The laser grenade from 2.43 was too weak, Ill admit that. But the new one in 2.44 is way too strong. I know the intended purpose is to encourage skill to dodge it, but messing up = losing 80% of your HP? If you land on one as a scout from a conc, you get instagib'd.

Why did you increase it by such a large amount? To me, ~180% seems far too strong. Why not just 50-75% or so?

EDIT: How are people voting no? have you even played FF after 2.44 came out?

Last edited by oaties; 12-22-2011 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 12-22-2011, 03:20 AM   #2
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I played it and if you hit the lasers, which are still easy to avoid, they should do some big damage.
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Old 12-22-2011, 04:14 PM   #3
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I voted no because they are fucking LASER BEAMZ. Avoid them - you don't get hurt.. If you're standing in the middle of three laser beams... then you kinda deserve to die.

I think they need to be limited though to one instead of the being able to grab two.
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:20 PM   #4
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The laser Grenade is perfect and the number or nades is too.... 2 nades...1 nade would be crap.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:08 PM   #5
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The main issue with the current laser nade is if you throw them somewhere you CAN'T avoid the center, like a tiny hallway, or directly on the flag, it becomes an instagib nade. Most of the time it's impractical to just wait the nade out. If I'm scout and get by the front line, I can't just stand there until the nade is finished buzzing. If I have the flag and there's a laser in a tiny hallway, that exit is completely shut down (thinking phantom button or siden top here, or really either exit on siden, monkey lower, reloaded, I could go on..). Again if I just sit there and wait obviously I'm going to get killed. The other exit will now have their entire team sitting there.

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Old 12-22-2011, 08:44 PM   #6
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Clearly the people who voted no are pub players, who don't even see why its game breaking.
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:06 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oaties View Post
Clearly the people who voted no are pub players, who don't even see why its game breaking.
personally i liked the way it was i used it like it was suppose to be used and i loved it same with the slowfeilds. but i haven't tested it out much yet, because no ones playing the game. it can't be a killing machine all by it self and if it is then there is a problem.

my biggest problem/concern is that many maps don't even let you use lazer grenades because the other game modes (besides ctf) don't allow you to get secondary nades at all.
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Old 12-23-2011, 01:26 AM   #8
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personally, I think the damage seems fine for the most part. EXCEPT when fuckers put it so the center is somewhere like the center of the flag as mentioned. thats a little too crazy. But i havent played a pickup in a long time so I'm going to pretend to not understand why also completely personally, I feel they last just a tad too long
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Old 12-23-2011, 01:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFiDi View Post
my biggest problem/concern is that many maps don't even let you use lazer grenades because the other game modes (besides ctf) don't allow you to get secondary nades at all.
That's basically because TFC's entities didn't let you give grenades to just one team, or just to certain classes. So to keep concs from ruining AvD, nobody got any gren2s except from bags.

In the 2.42 patch, I gave the defense full grenades in palermo and cornfield, and I think it did a lot of good. It would be worth trying in a number of other maps.

I've suggested making the center of the grenade do no damage, like the bug in the last patch, but in a way that's intentional and makes sense (like the lasers don't start at the center). That wouldn't change the intended purpose of the grenade.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazycarl View Post
That's basically because TFC's entities didn't let you give grenades to just one team, or just to certain classes. So to keep concs from ruining AvD, nobody got any gren2s except from bags.

In the 2.42 patch, I gave the defense full grenades in palermo and cornfield, and I think it did a lot of good. It would be worth trying in a number of other maps.

I've suggested making the center of the grenade do no damage, like the bug in the last patch, but in a way that's intentional and makes sense (like the lasers don't start at the center). That wouldn't change the intended purpose of the grenade.
i will post a link to my ideas to remediey these problems becasue it would be to long and no one would read them if i posted them here.

for now since making a new weapons takes forever you should just take away the conc from the scout and medic just for AvD. just for avd not for ctf or any game mode that currently uses concs but im pretty sure that ctf is only one that does.
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFiDi View Post
and as for the scout idk yet im still thinking about him.
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:05 PM   #12
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oj do it

the laser grenade is way too strong especially when spammed in doorways

set it and forget it, its a babysitter

defensive soldiers die intentionally now and rush out of spawn to throw these things out on offense routes, 1-2 shotty after lasers and bye bye.

if you throw one on flag directly on the pin all 3 lasers do damage instagibing a scout... making getting that flag REAALY tough

----------------

its good tho that the soldier has a good damage secondary nade now tho, equivalent to an emp or mirv

but in conjunction with teammates and these already semi spammy nades (EMP MIRV) it creates spammy laggy chaos at pinch points think destroy flag going out the front door with 3-4 lasers going around because 2 soldiers on D exploiting.

a solution might be that a scout could possibly jump ON TOP of the nade with no hit damage, almost like a little platform?

or just decrease the damage a tad, im thinking -5 hp off the amount that a single laser would inflict to a scout.

it's too strong
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:06 PM   #13
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amen

Quote:
Originally Posted by oaties View Post
Clearly the people who voted no are pub players, who don't even see why its game breaking.
play a pickup with people who know how to _ _ _ _ you up and see if you like laser nades!
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:37 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by truplaya View Post
play a pickup with people who know how to _ _ _ _ you up and see if you like laser nades!
Pretty much. I play pickups, and in 2v2s/3v3s especially I ALWAYS ask if we can do no laser nades. But FF players are unfair and love every overpowered advantage they can get, and say no and then just spam them on the flag *cough* fox *cough*.

The worst is when the server crashes when there are too many lasers.
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Old 01-01-2012, 04:46 PM   #15
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First the laser grenade wasn't very strong, and now it's too strong. The correct balance is incredibly important. I need to install the new update and play it before I render a totally accurate opinion as to its current strength. However, I think we need to avoid being nit picky. We as the community have a lot of impact over this game because we are so directly connected with the mod. But if we pick out and complain about every thing then real progress will never be achieved. We must be careful, and choose our battles.

Those of you who have used both forms of the grenade are in the best place to make an accurate decision and thinking over the course of the game here, is this really a problem that needs immediate attention? Or even a problem at all? If it is too strong, is it so much so that it destroys the game completely? Or are we just over playing our hand in being so involved in the process?
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:14 PM   #16
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It is ridiculously strong right now. Consider the main reason the nail gren was removed - the nails were pretty much useless, but you had the risk of it blowing up in your face as you were trying to jump over it. The laser grenade is kind of the same stupid risk problem - if you're running around a corner, there's a very good chance you'll walk into the center of the grenade and take ~200 damage (instagib for most classes). And the lasers are a hell of a lot stronger than the nails ever were. Sure, there's no explosion that fucks up your momentum, but it doesn't need that if it just decimates anyone coming near it.

Need a happy medium.
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:14 AM   #17
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also just a thought this community cries that it can't kill stuff like when they have nail grenade, they then go and remedy it. then you know what they do... they whine some moar!!!

ima laugh my self to sleep now see ya.
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Old 01-02-2012, 03:14 AM   #18
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most certainly remedied. but also most certainly a bit too much! in the center anyway. I think squeek has all the damage stuff figured out now though, and its more consistent!
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:25 PM   #19
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Pretty sure I'm the only person who thought the old laser was mostly fine. Just needed a little damage boost. I think the issue with people thinking they were too "weak" is they try to use them like a nail nade, ie just spam them at a corner and hope the explosion kills something. It's a different nade, there's no random-to-the-offence explosion, so you can't use it like that.

I mean it's common sense if you think about it from a fresh point of view. It's just that we as ex tfc players (well, most of us) have had 10 years of nail nades being soldier's secondary, so we use the laser in the same way as a reflex, without even thinking about it. It's the same thing with mirv vs slowfield.

What works great is if you throw one right in front of you, just out of range of the lasers, when you think the o is about to come in. Then use your rockets with the lasers, which hugely increases the chances of hitting something; they have to dodge the lasers and the rockets at the same time.
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Old 01-07-2012, 05:12 PM   #20
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Pretty sure I'm the only person who thought the old laser was mostly fine. Just needed a little damage boost.
I thought that too. Too bad everyone posting in this thread is someone who never even goes for the flag and doesn't realise how game breaking a laser is when its thrown on top of the flag.
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