Scout Caltrop

I still prefer the old style caltrops taht come out of your body. A grenade doesn't really make any sense, and priming it is practically impossible. I remember getting all sorts of random kills with caltrops in tfc, but I dont even use them in FF because in any tight situation I can't hold a stupid caltrop grenade down for 4 seconds because i'll be wanting to prime a conc within that time. I just dont see how this grenade could even be useful, even if it exploded on impact that means you wouldh ave to turn around and throw it at some random junk while running away and it's just so much work for something that was really great because if its simplicity.

[Credge]

Originally Posted by Smgzor

I still prefer the old style caltrops taht come out of your body. A grenade doesn't really make any sense, and priming it is practically impossible. I remember getting all sorts of random kills with caltrops in tfc, but I dont even use them in FF because in any tight situation I can't hold a stupid caltrop grenade down for 4 seconds because i'll be wanting to prime a conc within that time. I just dont see how this grenade could even be useful, even if it exploded on impact that means you wouldh ave to turn around and throw it at some random junk while running away and it's just so much work for something that was really great because if its simplicity.

Toss grenade in front of you. Prime conc. You pass grenade before it releases caltrops. Conc away. People chasing you step on caltrops.

Alternative:

Throw caltrops infront of your door. Offensive players step on them.

[be_]

Originally Posted by Credge

Toss grenade in front of you. Prime conc. You pass grenade before it releases caltrops. Conc away. People chasing you step on caltrops.

Alternative:

Throw caltrops infront of your door. Offensive players step on them.

This still does not sound as useful as being able to release multiple caltrops instantly and consecutively.

As well, the alternative: On an occasion that this may help your team's defense, it does not benefit the Scout class, itself, which has already been discussed, still could use some sort of balance.

Originally Posted by Credge

Toss grenade in front of you. Prime conc. You pass grenade before it releases caltrops. Conc away. People chasing you step on caltrops.

Alternative:

Throw caltrops infront of your door. Offensive players step on them.

I dont always know where the enemy is going to come from in advance. When i know someone is directly behind me, or not too far behind this is when I would need it the most. Most of the flags aren't in really good areas where you can throw/use caltrops effectively but there is definitely going to be a chance on most maps where you have to squeeze through a tight space, and it would be dumb/risky/waste of time to throw the capsule there beforehand, and much easier to just press the button and keep bhopping. I can't ever think of a time where i'm waltzing around the flagroom looking for a great spot to throw my little caltrop capsule so the enemy might step on it if i'm lucky. In especially tight situations, I almost always have a conc primed and I will never have time to waste with a stupid caltrop capsole and it's much easier to just drop them when I pass viable locations, or just because I can and am being chased.

Throwing is good, the 4 seconds dealy isn't. Not because of the fact that a scout outruns anybody, but simply because a scout out-concs everybody. How in gods name you gonna conc away while you have caltrops primed?

[Credge]

Originally Posted by Smgzor

I dont always know where the enemy is going to come from in advance.

Good guesses:

The front door
The Balcony

Coincidentally these are usually the spots that you come out from.

[richard nixon]

I think the caltrop things are too spread apart and there needs to be more of them, and sometimes I see an enemy or even myself walk on one (and 100% sure it's not an allies) and it doesn't slow them down? Maybe a bug?

But I agree with releasing on impact with the ground. And I kinda wish they exploded behind you if you keep holding it and never let it go even when it goes off. Would be useful for tight hallways.

[df`]

Originally Posted by Credge

Good guesses:

The front door
The Balcony

Coincidentally these are usually the spots that you come out from.

Then won't your own O get caltropped?

[Skanky Butterpuss]

what scout REALLY needs is IDSPISPOPD

[Ihmhi]

Originally Posted by Smgzor

I still prefer the old style caltrops taht come out of your body.

Okay, watch this. It's gonna be so cool. *giggle* Ohmygawd.

Okay. Okay okay. Ready?

Hold down your +gren1 key. Don't let go.

TA-DAAAAAAA! OLD CALTROPS!

Thank you.

*bows*

[Cosides]

rof + L

Originally Posted by Ihmhi

Okay, watch this. It's gonna be so cool. *giggle* Ohmygawd.

Okay. Okay okay. Ready?

Hold down your +gren1 key. Don't let go.

TA-DAAAAAAA! OLD CALTROPS!

Thank you.

*bows*

thanks.

[Credge]

Originally Posted by df`

Then won't your own O get caltropped?

Depends on the situation. Typically speaking the O comes out from one way and enters another.

[Dr.Satan]

Originally Posted by Ihmhi

Okay, watch this. It's gonna be so cool. *giggle* Ohmygawd.

Okay. Okay okay. Ready?

Hold down your +gren1 key. Don't let go.

TA-DAAAAAAA! OLD CALTROPS!

Thank you.

*bows*

This still doesn't address the issue that you cannot prime a conc w/out dropping the calltrop capsule. In TFC you could hit the caltrop and immediately prime a conc...

[df`]

Here's an idea, why not take the caltrop capsule and move it to a weapon slot, and replace the scout's gren1 with normalgrenades. Further, change the mechanics of the caltrop capsule to explode on contact.

Now, you don't have to prime the caltrops anymore, you can just throw them. Want them to explode at your feet like TFC caltrops? Throw them straight down. Plus, you have the added capability, not present in TFC, to toss them to a remote strategic location, as you see fit. And with the caltrops in the weapon slots, you're free to prime a grenade all the while. Chances are you weren't going to be needing your single shotty anyway.

Furthermore, now that the scout has normalgrenades, like every other class, he just might be able to compete with the medic as an O class.

I suppose the only downfall to this is that it's a major departure from traditional TF, and it may make the scout OP. But it's better than him being next to useless.

[Mikael]

Hm, this would really strange in 3rd person when holding the caltrops, would it?

[df`]

I don't see why. It would look the same as in CS when you're holding a grenade.

[Hammock]

Originally Posted by df`

Here's an idea, why not take the caltrop capsule and move it to a weapon slot, and replace the scout's gren1 with normalgrenades. Further, change the mechanics of the caltrop capsule to explode on contact.

Now, you don't have to prime the caltrops anymore, you can just throw them. Want them to explode at your feet like TFC caltrops? Throw them straight down. Plus, you have the added capability, not present in TFC, to toss them to a remote strategic location, as you see fit. And with the caltrops in the weapon slots, you're free to prime a grenade all the while. Chances are you weren't going to be needing your single shotty anyway.

Furthermore, now that the scout has normalgrenades, like every other class, he just might be able to compete with the medic as an O class.

I suppose the only downfall to this is that it's a major departure from traditional TF, and it may make the scout OP. But it's better than him being next to useless.

Nobody would play medic for offense again if a scout can take down sg's like a med can now. 99.9% of the time when I have switched from Scout to medic it is because of an irritating sg. Otherwise I'd be scout all the time.

I do like the idea of the scout caltrops being an actual weapon. That'd be pretty cool. Like the doubleshotty can shoot two shells at once, you could have the caltrops shoot out 5 at a time in a small cluster that maybe extends 5 feet, and give him like 100 in his arsenal. Let the scout control exactly where he wants them. It'd be pretty fun to shoot caltrops right at a person lol. As well you can make it non permanent sorta like how the tranq effects for the spy wear off.

Then for his primary gernade give him some green sticky sap that spreads over a large area on the floor(enough to cover most doorways and deep enough that it's unavoidable even trying to jump across it), and that can work out of the capsuls. Right now caltrops are too easily avoidable to make this primary gernade usefull, making this green sap unavoidable would make more sense since he doesn't really have any destructive capabilities, you'd want people acutally want to use it. Since they're a gernade it'd last longer on the floor than a caltrop would (these lasting only a couple seconds).

Cheers,
Hammock

Bringing back the old caltrop still seems like the best solution imho. It's instant and simple. Why take something so easy and try to alter it so much. The capsule idea is okay, but really the old caltrop was best. I dont understand where all these other ideas are coming from I really dont think any of them are going to improve the game or make it any more fun or balanced.

[Hammock]

Originally Posted by Smgzor

Bringing back the old caltrop still seems like the best solution imho. It's instant and simple. Why take something so easy and try to alter it so much. The capsule idea is okay, but really the old caltrop was best. I dont understand where all these other ideas are coming from I really dont think any of them are going to improve the game or make it any more fun or balanced.

The ideas are coming out because one of the bigger complaints from people who choose not to play is that it's too much like TFC. Yes I know what you're going to say it's suppose to be true to TFC. But some people after playing TFC for 10 years would like small changes here and there.

Personally if they had just directly ported over TFC into source line for line, I probably wouldn't play it either. I like the changes they have made but some people would like to see more.

So although we don't expect to see many of our ideas and suggestions come to life, we will still give them as they come to mind, in the small chance that a dev might actually like the idea and impliment it.

Hence ALLLLLL the suggestion threads scattered throughout the forums.

Cheers,
Hammock