Does anyone actually like attack/defense

qwertyuiop · 11-25-2009, 11:25 PM

They seem really boring and mindless. As attacker you just run for the flag, maybe bring it a few steps closer if you`re lucky, die and repeat. As defender you just need demomen putting all of their pipes under the flag to blow up whoever gets near and a couple soldiers spamming, maybe an SG and an HWguy. It isnt fun...

Icculus · 11-25-2009, 11:40 PM

I used to like strictly CTF but now i'm liking AVD more and more. Ksour, cornfield, Avanti_classic, Palermo. All fun maps.

From what I notice, most of the issues with AVD happen when the offense all work independently of each other. The key is to have good teamwork and quick followup in moving the flag.

If offense is all running off doing their own thing and there's no communication it can be very frustrating and way too easy for the defending team.

CTF is probably more suited to the pub environment because of all the newer players and the fact that it allows for a more independent playing style but i've had some great times playing AVD too.

-Icculus

GenghisTron · 11-25-2009, 11:48 PM

I personally feel AvD is better for a pub environment, since the objectives are more aligned with the walk and shoot mentality of pubbers, rather than CTF. AvD wasn't my thing in TFC, but in FF it's much more fun.

qwertyuiop · 11-25-2009, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenghisTron

AvD wasn't my thing in TFC, but in FF it's much more fun.

It's the opposite for me. Dustbowl was the bomb back in TFC, in FF AvD is mindless and boring (for me).

Pon · 11-25-2009, 11:52 PM

Ok, where's my banhammer...?

Seriously, yes, I think it suits a more organised playstyle. Not so organised as everyone's taking the game far too seriously... but a bunch of guys who know what their doing. In essence, a sort of less formal pickup, but for AvD maps, is a decent description of what I mean.

I do somewhat agree with the fact that it takes a bit of learning to get the most out of the game type, despite the condecending opinion I've seen elsewhere that AvD is for pubbers and people who enjoy mindless random spam.

And not every pubber is a "run and gun" player... some of us just hate clanning/taking the game seriously for whatever reason...

EDIT: I do agree AvD is generally less enjoyable in FF than in TFC...

MonoXideAtWork · 11-25-2009, 11:54 PM

Am I the only person that prefers the role switching of maps like ksour to the "red team is always D" gameplay like dustbowl?

It pisses me off to join in a server, wanting to play a certain side and having to play either team to balance it out rather than playing the team I want to play.

qwertyuiop · 11-25-2009, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonoXideAtWork

Am I the only person that prefers the role switching of maps like ksour to the "red team is always D" gameplay like dustbowl?

It pisses me off to join in a server, wanting to play a certain side and having to play either team to balance it out rather than playing the team I want to play.

Yea role switching is a good feature.

Pon · 11-25-2009, 11:57 PM

No, your not, quite a few of the guys who play AvD prefer that style. But I don't

.

One thing I dislike about role switching is you often get players who switch teams after each round so they are always on the attacking team (sometimes the defenders as well, but most often the attackers)...

Mostly it pisses me off that they unbalance the teams when they do it, and don't give a shit.

Dr.Satan · 11-26-2009, 05:26 AM

I actually enjoy playing an AvD or I/D map once in a while, but definitely prefer the role switch I/D style as it gives me a chance to hone my skills in both O and D while still changing things up.

Which reminds me...pon, you and I need to seriously go over the_cove sometime soon!

Raynian · 11-26-2009, 07:53 AM

Fuck yes thecove.

And whether I like AvD/ID depends largely on the map. I hated ksour in TFC, but something about it in FF makes it bearable. I actually prefer AVD (Dustbowl style) over ID (avanti style). Each cap is more important in AVD, getting the flag there is a challenge. In ID, it's almost like it's just a race to cap as fast as possible. e.g. ksour - cap 1 is the hardest cap point, usually, and after that the next three points just fly by.

chilledsanity · 11-26-2009, 08:43 AM

Easy answer, if AvD didn't exist, I never would have gotten into TFC or FF. I find CTF boring in pretty much any game. The only objectives are points, which isn't much of a goal for me. In AvD you have more tangible objectives and consequences (it moves the spawn forward / can end the game) and they have WAY more action than CTF (except maybe xpress). Plus they go well with a pub environment. If someone on your team doesn't have a clue, but just wants to deathmatch, he's still helping your team, while you can focus on objectives and circumventing or enforcing defense. Finally, I think the maps are more interesting. CTF is almost always a mirror image map layout, most of which consist of just some nice yard, followed by a bunch of concrete corridors.

So I find AvD has more action, is more fun, more intuitive, easier for newcomers to grasp, and more engaging visually.

EDIT: I would say that if you find AvD mindless, you should probably try some different classes/positions. Some maps take a good deal of tactics and strategy, especially for offense v. a strong defense. Except maybe for vertigo with 22 people. There's not a lot of room for maneuvering there.

Iggy · 11-26-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pon

One thing I dislike about role switching is you often get players who switch teams after each round so they are always on the attacking team (sometimes the defenders as well, but most often the attackers)...

Mostly it pisses me off that they unbalance the teams when they do it, and don't give a shit.

This can be easily cured by removing the "change teams" key. Auto-team all the way.

Carrots · 11-26-2009, 08:32 PM

once you see ppl such as gator play ctf, you will change your mind

Hammock · 11-26-2009, 09:25 PM

I love AvD maps, actually in pubs I'd rather play those than ctf. I like ctf in pickups, but I just have lots of fun in pubs. Especially ksour_classic.

Although I like AvD in FF, the only reason why I liked it more in TFC was because of dustbowl.

tfc dustbowl was the shit. I would play it for hours and hours on 24/7 servers.

FF dustbowl just feels too cluttered, I trip up everywhere on it, and it just does not play the same.

Also I think the fact the community is soo small it can't support a 24/7 server. That's a huge part of it, playing with the same guys over and over for hours on the same maps makes it far more interesting. You learn their play style, you know who to watch out for, and you try and beat your friends on the enemy team.

Demo boosting fatties by far one of the funnest things to do, can't do that in FF

.

another fun thing was on offense to try and build a teleporter/sg behind enemy lines and laugh when they struggled to take it down, while a 2nd/3rd engy built their teleporter right next to yours and your whole team is teleporting in in waves. lol good times.

chilledsanity · 11-27-2009, 04:56 AM

Hammock: Yeah, Dustbowl and Warpath were pretty much all I ever played in TFC, only occasionally doing other maps. I think the FF speeds are what make dustbowl now seem smaller.

Pixel · 11-27-2009, 09:22 PM

I liked AvD much more in tfc, but in FF I don't really favor one over the other.

Shadow xXx · 11-29-2009, 01:53 AM

i like it , it makes fun and isnt boring ;P
ctf is great too

see ya~

xks · 11-30-2009, 05:50 PM

CTF is far superior to any type of AvD mode, both on publics and in clan/pickup play.

GenghisTron · 11-30-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xks

CTF is far superior to any type of AvD mode, both on publics and in clan/pickup play.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion

Circuitous · 11-30-2009, 10:39 PM

Genghis, just curious - are you retarded? Opinion is kinda the basis for this entire goddamn thread.

11-25-2009, 11:25 PM	#1
qwertyuiop Voted #1 FF Forum Member D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Canada Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times	Does anyone actually like attack/defense They seem really boring and mindless. As attacker you just run for the flag, maybe bring it a few steps closer if you`re lucky, die and repeat. As defender you just need demomen putting all of their pipes under the flag to blow up whoever gets near and a couple soldiers spamming, maybe an SG and an HWguy. It isnt fun...

11-25-2009, 11:48 PM	#3
GenghisTron AKA LittleAndroidMan D&A Member Beta Tester Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dystopia Class/Position: Demo/Medic Gametype: CTF Affiliations: [TALOS] [SR] Posts Rated Helpful 11 Times	I personally feel AvD is better for a pub environment, since the objectives are more aligned with the walk and shoot mentality of pubbers, rather than CTF. AvD wasn't my thing in TFC, but in FF it's much more fun. __________________ The Catacombs Steam Last.fm

11-25-2009, 11:52 PM	#5
Pon Not choking. Yet. Lua Team Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Scotland Class/Position: Demo/Def - Spy/Off Gametype: Anything but yet more fucking CTF Affiliations: FF.AvD [FF AvD/ID guild] Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Ok, where's my banhammer...? Seriously, yes, I think it suits a more organised playstyle. Not so organised as everyone's taking the game far too seriously... but a bunch of guys who know what their doing. In essence, a sort of less formal pickup, but for AvD maps, is a decent description of what I mean. I do somewhat agree with the fact that it takes a bit of learning to get the most out of the game type, despite the condecending opinion I've seen elsewhere that AvD is for pubbers and people who enjoy mindless random spam. And not every pubber is a "run and gun" player... some of us just hate clanning/taking the game seriously for whatever reason... EDIT: I do agree AvD is generally less enjoyable in FF than in TFC... __________________ Support FF: YOU GUYS REALLY SHOULD UPDATE YOUR STAFF LIST! I haven't posted since 2010... Preferable to death. But only just... -\ff_basicbowl\|ff_duckhunt\|ff_rock2_qnd\|ff_vats_koth/- Last edited by Pon; 11-25-2009 at 11:53 PM.

11-25-2009, 11:57 PM	#8
Pon Not choking. Yet. Lua Team Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Scotland Class/Position: Demo/Def - Spy/Off Gametype: Anything but yet more fucking CTF Affiliations: FF.AvD [FF AvD/ID guild] Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	No, your not, quite a few of the guys who play AvD prefer that style. But I don't . One thing I dislike about role switching is you often get players who switch teams after each round so they are always on the attacking team (sometimes the defenders as well, but most often the attackers)... Mostly it pisses me off that they unbalance the teams when they do it, and don't give a shit. __________________ Support FF: YOU GUYS REALLY SHOULD UPDATE YOUR STAFF LIST! I haven't posted since 2010... Preferable to death. But only just... -\ff_basicbowl\|ff_duckhunt\|ff_rock2_qnd\|ff_vats_koth/- Last edited by Pon; 11-25-2009 at 11:59 PM.

11-26-2009, 05:26 AM	#9
Dr.Satan Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greeley, CO Class/Position: Med / Solly Gametype: PAYLOAD Affiliations: DET- Posts Rated Helpful 19 Times	I actually enjoy playing an AvD or I/D map once in a while, but definitely prefer the role switch I/D style as it gives me a chance to hone my skills in both O and D while still changing things up. Which reminds me...pon, you and I need to seriously go over the_cove sometime soon! __________________ FF Community Map Pack(s): 1 / 2 (Released) conc_school \| hellion_classic \| ksour_PAYLOAD \| mulch_faf (Beta) alchimy_b1 (Lua) base_payload_2015 (Models) props_trainyard Support FF:

11-25-2009, 11:40 PM	#2
Icculus D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Hampshire Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I used to like strictly CTF but now i'm liking AVD more and more. Ksour, cornfield, Avanti_classic, Palermo. All fun maps. From what I notice, most of the issues with AVD happen when the offense all work independently of each other. The key is to have good teamwork and quick followup in moving the flag. If offense is all running off doing their own thing and there's no communication it can be very frustrating and way too easy for the defending team. CTF is probably more suited to the pub environment because of all the newer players and the fact that it allows for a more independent playing style but i've had some great times playing AVD too. -Icculus

11-25-2009, 11:54 PM	#6
MonoXideAtWork Pub Allstar! Beta Tester Join Date: Aug 2008 Class/Position: under en kvinna Gametype: Capture the Flag Affiliations: Eternal Order, Must be h4x, Mono's happy funtime. Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Am I the only person that prefers the role switching of maps like ksour to the "red team is always D" gameplay like dustbowl? It pisses me off to join in a server, wanting to play a certain side and having to play either team to balance it out rather than playing the team I want to play.

11-26-2009, 07:53 AM	#10
Raynian D&A Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Ruining #pickups Class/Position: SPAWN CAMPING OH NO Gametype: Ragequitting Affiliations: [PMS]. [Shiney] Posts Rated Helpful 26 Times	Fuck yes thecove. And whether I like AvD/ID depends largely on the map. I hated ksour in TFC, but something about it in FF makes it bearable. I actually prefer AVD (Dustbowl style) over ID (avanti style). Each cap is more important in AVD, getting the flag there is a challenge. In ID, it's almost like it's just a race to cap as fast as possible. e.g. ksour - cap 1 is the hardest cap point, usually, and after that the next three points just fly by.

11-26-2009, 08:43 AM	#11
chilledsanity D&A Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Gametype: AvD, I/D, waterpolo, hunted Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times	Easy answer, if AvD didn't exist, I never would have gotten into TFC or FF. I find CTF boring in pretty much any game. The only objectives are points, which isn't much of a goal for me. In AvD you have more tangible objectives and consequences (it moves the spawn forward / can end the game) and they have WAY more action than CTF (except maybe xpress). Plus they go well with a pub environment. If someone on your team doesn't have a clue, but just wants to deathmatch, he's still helping your team, while you can focus on objectives and circumventing or enforcing defense. Finally, I think the maps are more interesting. CTF is almost always a mirror image map layout, most of which consist of just some nice yard, followed by a bunch of concrete corridors. So I find AvD has more action, is more fun, more intuitive, easier for newcomers to grasp, and more engaging visually. EDIT: I would say that if you find AvD mindless, you should probably try some different classes/positions. Some maps take a good deal of tactics and strategy, especially for offense v. a strong defense. Except maybe for vertigo with 22 people. There's not a lot of room for maneuvering there. Last edited by chilledsanity; 11-26-2009 at 08:47 AM.

11-26-2009, 08:32 PM	#13
Carrots Join Date: Oct 2009 Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	once you see ppl such as gator play ctf, you will change your mind

11-26-2009, 09:25 PM	#14
Hammock D&A Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 13 Times	I love AvD maps, actually in pubs I'd rather play those than ctf. I like ctf in pickups, but I just have lots of fun in pubs. Especially ksour_classic. Although I like AvD in FF, the only reason why I liked it more in TFC was because of dustbowl. tfc dustbowl was the shit. I would play it for hours and hours on 24/7 servers. FF dustbowl just feels too cluttered, I trip up everywhere on it, and it just does not play the same. Also I think the fact the community is soo small it can't support a 24/7 server. That's a huge part of it, playing with the same guys over and over for hours on the same maps makes it far more interesting. You learn their play style, you know who to watch out for, and you try and beat your friends on the enemy team. Demo boosting fatties by far one of the funnest things to do, can't do that in FF . another fun thing was on offense to try and build a teleporter/sg behind enemy lines and laugh when they struggled to take it down, while a 2nd/3rd engy built their teleporter right next to yours and your whole team is teleporting in in waves. lol good times.

11-27-2009, 04:56 AM	#15
chilledsanity D&A Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Gametype: AvD, I/D, waterpolo, hunted Posts Rated Helpful 6 Times	Hammock: Yeah, Dustbowl and Warpath were pretty much all I ever played in TFC, only occasionally doing other maps. I think the FF speeds are what make dustbowl now seem smaller. Last edited by chilledsanity; 11-27-2009 at 04:56 AM.

11-27-2009, 09:22 PM	#16
Pixel if(0>1){printf("broked");} Beta Tester Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Amerika Class/Position: O Posts Rated Helpful 3 Times	I liked AvD much more in tfc, but in FF I don't really favor one over the other.

11-29-2009, 01:53 AM	#17
Shadow xXx Join Date: Sep 2009 Gametype: Capture the Flag Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	i like it , it makes fun and isnt boring ;P ctf is great too see ya~

11-30-2009, 05:50 PM	#18
xks Exceedingly Correct. Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: London, England. Class/Position: Variable Gametype: QuakeLive CTF Posts Rated Helpful 1 Times	CTF is far superior to any type of AvD mode, both on publics and in clan/pickup play.

11-30-2009, 10:39 PM	#20
Circuitous Useless Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jun 2005 Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout Gametype: AvD Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	Genghis, just curious - are you retarded? Opinion is kinda the basis for this entire goddamn thread. __________________ Look at all those dead links.

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