What do you call yourself politically?

Credge · 01-26-2010, 03:25 PM

I want to see where everyone here thinks they stand politically.

Are you far left? Far right? Center? Center right? Center left? Communist? Capitalist? Socialist? Anarchist?

I'm talking about both your ideals of a perfect world and how you actually vote.

I'll use myself as an example:

I lean to the right for everything but social issues, for which I stand in the middle. I'm an individualist and I don't believe collectivism is good for anybody. I'm staunchly against large government and a consitutionalist. You could call me a Libertarian to get a rough outline of my views on things.

I'm against the creation of laws that limit the individuals rights and I'm for the creation of laws that expands upon the individuals rights. I stand firm by the notion that all men are created equally (I'm not religious, nor do I believe in a diety of any variety... I'm an agnostic atheist).

I am both pro life and pro choice, and no, that's not an impossibility.

I'm against government regulation in the vast majority of things (read: all but about three). I quote Reagan in my signature for a reason.

I'm a big American military supporter despite a large number of the young ones being very large douche-nozzles. There's a song that depicts my stance on this fairly well:

YouTube

I despise the politicization of science. An example of somebody who abuses this is Al Gore.

I despise revisionist history. An example of somebody who abuses this is Saul Alinsky.

I'm a Hayek Capitalist. For those who don't know what that means:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_von_Hayek

For a further grasp of why I call myself a Libertarian, read what he had to say about conservatism. You might actually learn something about why conservatives call liberals here in the U.S. socialists.

http://www.fahayek.org/index.php?opt...ask=view&id=46

FrenchToast · 01-26-2010, 04:09 PM

I don't call myself anything.

stray kitten · 01-26-2010, 04:21 PM

Pretty much what you say for the most part. I hate political correctness. I view individual right to include everyone. For example, Pro gay marriage, anti gay marriage what ever. I don't think you are bad for taking one stance or another. And "rights" extend to even someone who owns a small business. And I do call liberals socialists. I use that term a lot. Especially "social justice". If you don't like being called a socialist, then don't be one.

And where appropriate science always trumps politics.

Innoc · 01-26-2010, 10:59 PM

Libertarian. I believe that freedom includes not only the right to succeed but the right to fail miserably and suffer the consequences of your action or inaction. Likewise I don't believe that anyone deserves to be immunized from those consequences at the expense of another.

On a related note I changed my party affiliation this year for the first time since I registered 25 years ago. I can no longer support any party that routinely shits on the Constitution.

GenghisTron · 01-26-2010, 11:43 PM

A voluntaryist/consequentialist libertarian.

Iggy · 01-27-2010, 01:16 AM

I don't like to limit myself with labels.

My views(being left or right) depend greatly on the individual topic. Some would call me a socialist, others would call me a fanatic, some would call me conservative, liberal, fascist, realist, racist... among many other things.

So..... yeah....... I don't like to limit myself with labels.

uBeR · 01-27-2010, 03:11 AM

It seems the "libertarian" label has become very trendy. It's sort of in vogue in within American politics at the present. Of course, these people calling themselves "libertarians" best even Orwell's greatest work.

FrenchToast · 01-27-2010, 04:57 AM

Real libertarians scare the shit out of me.

Credge · 01-27-2010, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uBeR

It seems the "libertarian" label has become very trendy. It's sort of in vogue in within American politics at the present. Of course, these people calling themselves "libertarians" best even Orwell's greatest work.

So how would you define libertarian?

Scuzzy · 01-27-2010, 03:18 PM

Constitutionalist.

stray kitten · 01-27-2010, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uBeR

It seems the "libertarian" label has become very trendy. It's sort of in vogue in within American politics at the present. Of course, these people calling themselves "libertarians" best even Orwell's greatest work.

I felt the same thing about the label "libertarian" back when Bush was elected. it seemed like liberals were using the term at the time so I called Libertarians liberals. It is trendy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrenchToast

Real libertarians scare the shit out of me.

this

Backstaber · 01-27-2010, 03:58 PM

Anti-Statist

Bridget · 01-27-2010, 04:13 PM

Someone link me to one of those quizzes, 'cause fuck if I know.

uBeR · 01-27-2010, 04:17 PM

Best one I've seen so far.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Bridget · 01-27-2010, 04:41 PM

Etzell · 01-27-2010, 06:13 PM

FrenchToast · 01-27-2010, 06:45 PM

uBeR · 01-27-2010, 07:36 PM

What's libertarianism? Well, in the United States, political terms take the opposite meaning of what they have traditionally always meant. It makes it sort of hard to talk. So for example, in the United States, libertarianism might aptly be described as "society run by corporations" (as opposed to the public). That's the rhetoric, the implied meaning of the term within the American lexicon. Of course, it's practiced quite differently than how it's described. It's described as completely free markets, anti-statist, highly individualistic, strict demarcation of class, and so on. That's the rhetoric behind it. Of course, as it's practiced, it's quite another thing.

That's the very perverted meaning of libertarianism that Americans have adopted. Like I said, it's sort of in vogue right now. Right-wingers love to call themselves libertarians these days because they're opposed to the government providing social protection or something. They don't like when the government spends, so they call themselves libertarians. They quote Hayek, Mises, maybe even Rothbard or Nozick if they're smart, Ron Paul, etc. That's trendy right now.

What these people espouse, even those who support the rhetoric behind it, is completely different than what the term has always meant, which was based of Enlightenment thinking. So if we think back to Enlightenment, we might think of Adam Smith--the real Smith who wrote that the desideratum of society is "perfect equality," which could be achieved through "perfect liberty." Libertarianism was born out of the socialist tradition. So "libertarian socialist" might seem like a contradiction in terms within the American lexicon, but that's precisely because we've taken the opposite meaning of words. In reality, it might mean something like the complete abolition of authoritarian institutions, including even the private ones. In other words, complete democracy. There are tons of different currents, but that's sort of the underlying theme within real libertarianism.

Here's where I stand, using the test I posted.

Scuzzy · 01-27-2010, 08:21 PM

Neat test, guess I'm the great moderator.

Credge · 01-27-2010, 08:27 PM

Awesome, discussion.

To comment on the Americans call things differently stuffs: You're absolutely correct! A European liberal is not the same as an American liberal. This is much the same as how a European conservative (oh god, they're bad) is not the same as an American conservative.

I think, though, that we're in basic agreement on a few things, one of which straykitty brought up.

When Bush was in power, left leaning folks called themselves Libertarians, primarily for the same reason people call themselves Libertarians now. That is to say that the direction that the government was heading was not in the direction they wanted and that they do not want a part of it.

In other words, they want the government to have less power, less control, etc. The most obvious thing Bush did that would make a Libertarian cringe would be the Patriot Act. I would actually say that there are very few people who support it.

Anyway, I think the definitions given for Libertarian on Wikipedia and for the libertarian parties website (www.lp.org) are pretty correct.

I do not agree that Libertarians believe that corporations should have power. That's a psuedo-Republican ideal.

I also do not understand the fear for a real Libertarian. The notion doesn't make much sense to me. There's a difference between a Libertarian (one who believes in minimal government control) and an Anarchist (one who does not believe in government). A real Libertarian would defend you and your individual freedoms.

I would imagine that the majority of us here are at least a little Libertarian despite our left/right differences. Despite the quiz showing this, I don't think it works very well.

Examine these two pictures.

In one, I voted as I normally would. In the other, I only voted with the strongly options. I voted the exact same way that I did in the first, but with the strongly options. All it did was put me one down towards Libertarian (which is odd, because all of the state-inspired ones were already a strongly option) and more to the right... which is again odd because it should have driven me to the left more.

Anyone up for putting those questions up here and then having everyone answer them? Too personal for you guys?

01-26-2010, 04:09 PM	#2
FrenchToast The 1337est D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Omagosh Canada. Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	I don't call myself anything. __________________ James, while John had had 'had', had had 'had had' ; 'had had' had had a better effect on the teacher.

01-26-2010, 04:21 PM	#3
stray kitten mjau D&A Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Class/Position: kittens are sneaky, spy Gametype: Capture the mouse Posts Rated Helpful 2 Times	Pretty much what you say for the most part. I hate political correctness. I view individual right to include everyone. For example, Pro gay marriage, anti gay marriage what ever. I don't think you are bad for taking one stance or another. And "rights" extend to even someone who owns a small business. And I do call liberals socialists. I use that term a lot. Especially "social justice". If you don't like being called a socialist, then don't be one. And where appropriate science always trumps politics. __________________ 6 of the 10 richest counties in America now surround Washington D.C. Our "capitol" edged out Silicon Valley as the nation's richest metro area. Reality Distortion Field = 1. Stream the distractions: One percent, hoodies, and kony oh my.

01-26-2010, 10:59 PM	#4
Innoc Hitman 2 1 Actual Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: "Oscar Mike" Gametype: FPS or RTS (just say NO to MMO) Affiliations: Your Mom Posts Rated Helpful 8 Times	Libertarian. I believe that freedom includes not only the right to succeed but the right to fail miserably and suffer the consequences of your action or inaction. Likewise I don't believe that anyone deserves to be immunized from those consequences at the expense of another. On a related note I changed my party affiliation this year for the first time since I registered 25 years ago. I can no longer support any party that routinely shits on the Constitution. __________________ Mooga on Obama: He can cut taxes. Actually do something useful. Punch Nancy Pelosi in the face. Just to name a few. You eventually run out of other people's money to spend.

01-26-2010, 11:43 PM	#5
GenghisTron AKA LittleAndroidMan D&A Member Beta Tester Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dystopia Class/Position: Demo/Medic Gametype: CTF Affiliations: [TALOS] [SR] Posts Rated Helpful 11 Times	A voluntaryist/consequentialist libertarian. __________________ The Catacombs Steam Last.fm

01-27-2010, 03:11 AM	#7
uBeR Not ****** Yet D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	It seems the "libertarian" label has become very trendy. It's sort of in vogue in within American politics at the present. Of course, these people calling themselves "libertarians" best even Orwell's greatest work. __________________ OCCUPATION 101. *One would think a simple task would be, well, simple. Maybe not for simpletons.* Last edited by uBeR; 01-27-2010 at 03:14 AM.

01-27-2010, 04:57 AM	#8
FrenchToast The 1337est D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Omagosh Canada. Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	Real libertarians scare the shit out of me. __________________ James, while John had had 'had', had had 'had had' ; 'had had' had had a better effect on the teacher.

01-27-2010, 03:18 PM	#10
Scuzzy The Old Timers Clan D&A Member Retired FF Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Server: 206.217.134.170:27016 Posts Rated Helpful 2 Times	Constitutionalist. __________________ "Player Quality, not Quantity, is what we strive for." - The LLama Wrangler "A clan is defined by the nature of it's enemies. - The Llama Wrangler

01-27-2010, 03:58 PM	#12
Backstaber Custom User Title D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Jersey Class/Position: Scout Offence Gametype: Capture The Flag Affiliations: None Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Anti-Statist

01-27-2010, 04:13 PM	#13
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Someone link me to one of those quizzes, 'cause fuck if I know.

01-27-2010, 04:17 PM	#14
uBeR Not ****** Yet D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Best one I've seen so far. http://www.politicalcompass.org/test __________________ OCCUPATION 101. *One would think a simple task would be, well, simple. Maybe not for simpletons.*

01-27-2010, 04:41 PM	#15
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times

01-27-2010, 06:13 PM	#16
Etzell D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times

01-27-2010, 06:45 PM	#17
FrenchToast The 1337est D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Omagosh Canada. Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	__________________ James, while John had had 'had', had had 'had had' ; 'had had' had had a better effect on the teacher. Last edited by FrenchToast; 01-27-2010 at 06:45 PM.

01-27-2010, 07:36 PM	#18
uBeR Not ****** Yet D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	What's libertarianism? Well, in the United States, political terms take the opposite meaning of what they have traditionally always meant. It makes it sort of hard to talk. So for example, in the United States, libertarianism might aptly be described as "society run by corporations" (as opposed to the public). That's the rhetoric, the implied meaning of the term within the American lexicon. Of course, it's practiced quite differently than how it's described. It's described as completely free markets, anti-statist, highly individualistic, strict demarcation of class, and so on. That's the rhetoric behind it. Of course, as it's practiced, it's quite another thing. That's the very perverted meaning of libertarianism that Americans have adopted. Like I said, it's sort of in vogue right now. Right-wingers love to call themselves libertarians these days because they're opposed to the government providing social protection or something. They don't like when the government spends, so they call themselves libertarians. They quote Hayek, Mises, maybe even Rothbard or Nozick if they're smart, Ron Paul, etc. That's trendy right now. What these people espouse, even those who support the rhetoric behind it, is completely different than what the term has always meant, which was based of Enlightenment thinking. So if we think back to Enlightenment, we might think of Adam Smith--the real Smith who wrote that the desideratum of society is "perfect equality," which could be achieved through "perfect liberty." Libertarianism was born out of the socialist tradition. So "libertarian socialist" might seem like a contradiction in terms within the American lexicon, but that's precisely because we've taken the opposite meaning of words. In reality, it might mean something like the complete abolition of authoritarian institutions, including even the private ones. In other words, complete democracy. There are tons of different currents, but that's sort of the underlying theme within real libertarianism. Here's where I stand, using the test I posted. __________________ OCCUPATION 101. *One would think a simple task would be, well, simple. Maybe not for simpletons.* Last edited by uBeR; 02-08-2010 at 06:58 AM.

01-27-2010, 08:21 PM	#19
Scuzzy The Old Timers Clan D&A Member Retired FF Staff Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Server: 206.217.134.170:27016 Posts Rated Helpful 2 Times	Neat test, guess I'm the great moderator. __________________ "Player Quality, not Quantity, is what we strive for." - The LLama Wrangler "A clan is defined by the nature of it's enemies. - The Llama Wrangler

01-27-2010, 08:27 PM	#20
Credge FF Loremaster Beta Tester Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 4 Times	Awesome, discussion. To comment on the Americans call things differently stuffs: You're absolutely correct! A European liberal is not the same as an American liberal. This is much the same as how a European conservative (oh god, they're bad) is not the same as an American conservative. I think, though, that we're in basic agreement on a few things, one of which straykitty brought up. When Bush was in power, left leaning folks called themselves Libertarians, primarily for the same reason people call themselves Libertarians now. That is to say that the direction that the government was heading was not in the direction they wanted and that they do not want a part of it. In other words, they want the government to have less power, less control, etc. The most obvious thing Bush did that would make a Libertarian cringe would be the Patriot Act. I would actually say that there are very few people who support it. Anyway, I think the definitions given for Libertarian on Wikipedia and for the libertarian parties website (www.lp.org) are pretty correct. I do not agree that Libertarians believe that corporations should have power. That's a psuedo-Republican ideal. I also do not understand the fear for a real Libertarian. The notion doesn't make much sense to me. There's a difference between a Libertarian (one who believes in minimal government control) and an Anarchist (one who does not believe in government). A real Libertarian would defend you and your individual freedoms. I would imagine that the majority of us here are at least a little Libertarian despite our left/right differences. Despite the quiz showing this, I don't think it works very well. Examine these two pictures. In one, I voted as I normally would. In the other, I only voted with the strongly options. I voted the exact same way that I did in the first, but with the strongly options. All it did was put me one down towards Libertarian (which is odd, because all of the state-inspired ones were already a strongly option) and more to the right... which is again odd because it should have driven me to the left more. Anyone up for putting those questions up here and then having everyone answer them? Too personal for you guys? __________________ "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" Ronald Reagan

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