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Old 04-05-2009, 12:46 AM   #1
Snipe
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Snipers: the hated class

for the past week, ive heard a lot of crap about how snipers are the most pathetic class. how it requires no skill to be a sniper. people who are snipers are noobs. BS. explain it to me. tell me why. also, how easy is it for a noob to start out as a HW, or a solly. "just shoot in the general area" is how those classes can be played by a noob, and it works out ok.

but yet, the sniper is always the one messed with in game. shot at by team members, called noobs, blocked by players on purpose, and launched around with rockets and pipes.

IMHO, to be a GOOD sniper, you need skill. quite a bit of skill. sure a brand new person can play as a sniper and get some kills, but like i said earlier, they can play as ANY class and get some kills.

there are a few skills that you MUST have to be an effective sniper.
1. picking a good location. trying to find a place to call "home" for a while that is out of sight, or somewhere that the NME wont think to look. and at the same time, that location has to have a good view of the action and a good line of sight and range.

2.patience. if you arent patient, you shouldnt be a sniper. those who always complain to me are always the ones who run out of spawn guns blazing. snipers arent supposed to be played like that. you have to wait for the enemy to come to you.

3. GOOD AIM!!!! plain and simple. the sniper rifle isnt a shotgun or a rocket launcher. no splash damage, no spread shot. aim is very important. anyone can kill someone with a super shotty if their aim is bad. same with a rocket. but NOT a sniper rifle.

4. quick decision making. should i shoot the HW or the solly first? who would pose a bigger threat to my team? aim for the head of a scout, or the legs first to slow him down?

5. concentration/sight. look for shadows. look for cloaked spies accross the map. look for movement in deep water. know your surroundings.

and yet everyone says any noob can be a good sniper. my ass. most snipers playing FF get a 1-1 or 2-1 kill/death ratio. i myself get 10-1 or 20-1. as do a VERY FEW others. hell ive even seen one get a 30-1 ratio. we are skilled. we are not noobs. and on a side note, people complain about snipers saying NS to each other all the time. its a sniper thing. if you played regularly as a sniper you would understand. sniping is very personal.

/rant

discuss, call me a noob, flame me, i dont care. ive been wanting to rant about this shit for a while.
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Old 04-05-2009, 01:02 AM   #2
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In the simplest terms possible, because most of the things you just said don't fit very well with how the rest of the game is played. It's almost as if snipers are "outside" FF shooting "in". Getting potshotted by a sniper hiding in an obscure corner is not exactly something that the victim will want to encourage.

Though, this is not a response to the claim that "any noob can be a good sniper", because that is 130% false. It DOES take real skill to hit targets in such a fast-paced game, but it also is a skill that is not looked kindly upon by the victims for the same reasons (the game prides itself on being fast-paced, having constant movement and interactive/two-sided combat, etc).

If you want to show your sniper skills to people that will appreciate it, however, you can join the FF.PL 2v2 Sniper League.
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Old 04-05-2009, 01:48 AM   #3
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I find that my love or hate of snipers depends largely on which side of the sniper rifle i'm on.

I enjoy sniping but I also understand how frustrating it can be. Yes it takes skill to snipe well but from the enemies perspective you're a protected class who takes cheap shots from a distance and can easily run away when the enemy gets near. It's easy to say it's a class for noobs.

I divide my time fairly evenly between Soldier, Medic, and Sniper. While I agree with some of what you're saying, I don't think you're giving other classes their due credit. It takes skill to be good at any class and the Super Shotty doesn't really spread all that much. You need to be prettly up close and accurate to do serious damage with it. Rockets also need to be aimed well. Good prediction and leading is a huge part of being a successful soldier.

As far as saying "ns" for a nice shot. I say that alot as sniper. Especially if the other sniper is having a harder time than me. I find the game is more enjoyable if people are encouraging rather than negative.

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Old 04-05-2009, 01:58 AM   #4
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i take it you play sniper pretty much exclusively then?
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Old 04-05-2009, 02:11 AM   #5
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no actually i dont. but i am best as a sniper. i play as demoman, spy and engie. demoman i play purely defensive.
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Old 04-05-2009, 02:23 AM   #6
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A lot of snipers just go to the same ledge every time and shoot, and run any time somebody comes after them. That doesn't take much skill. The better snipers will move around as they shoot and always surprise the enemy.

If you are up against a sniper, there's not much you can do offensively against him to avoid getting shot. It's frustrating, and it's something we'd like to change in the future.

I say ns if someone impresses me with a shot. Especially if I'm the one who died.

But why are you talking about your k/d ratio? This isn't a DM game. It isn't counterstrike. You don't get penalized for dieing.
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Old 04-05-2009, 02:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe View Post
no actually i dont. but i am best as a sniper. i play as demoman, spy and engie. demoman i play purely defensive.
this explains a lot i think.
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Old 04-05-2009, 02:29 AM   #8
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I don't know who hates snipers.

I love them.

With my crowbar.
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Old 04-05-2009, 02:38 AM   #9
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I don't know who hates snipers. I love them. With my crowbar.
+1
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Old 04-05-2009, 02:54 AM   #10
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this explains a lot i think.
lemmie guess skanky, because i dont play solly, im a noob right? i hear this all the time and its fuckin annoying. im good with solly, but i hate using em. honestly, its boring.

and if thats NOT what you meant, please explain.
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Old 04-05-2009, 03:29 AM   #11
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I can't speak for Mr. Butterpuss, but think the point he is trying to raise is this:
Your usual roles in play don't generally encounter enemy snipers, except as a sniper.
You don't spend much time in the category of "getting sniped at without sniping back" which is where the majority of consistent O players tend to hang out.
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Old 04-05-2009, 07:15 AM   #12
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tbh only newbie class is engy :a

ps. engy powa!
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Old 04-05-2009, 10:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazycarl View Post
If you are up against a sniper, there's not much you can do offensively against him to avoid getting shot. It's frustrating, and it's something we'd like to change in the future.
this is exactly the crux for a lot of people.
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Old 04-05-2009, 01:06 PM   #14
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There are multiple things that can be done to avoid getting shot and to then give the Sniper a hard time which will further reduce your chances of being shot.

Try synchronising your attacks so that more than one of you leaves the base at the same time, try variating your movement and using different techniques to speed yourself up.

Concing also helps since the game or the engine is so buggy it rarely registers any shots on fast moving targets, especially those moving from one side of your screen to the other, it's nearly impossible to hit them no matter how good you are.

Once one or two intelligent players have bridged the gap and got near the Sniper there is next to nothing the Sniper can do except die. They have low health and can't shoot when off the ground, in close range circumstances they are easy to deal with. Even the Engineer is a great anti Sniper weapon now, just charge up the rail and fire it in the Snipers general direction, if you get a direct hit the Sniper is dead in one shot even with full HP, if not you have lowered it so much that he will have to retreat to restock anyway.

If you mindlessly walk/run/conc to the enemy base without considering anything other than thinking it's your "right" to get there unhurt then you will have a bad day against a good Sniper. If you co-ordinate with your team and work out ways to counteract the Sniper's dominance over your team then the Sniper will have next to no fun whatsoever.

It's just as easy to stop a Sniper from having fun as it is for him to kill you at range, probably even easier in fact.

The fact that FF is such a spammy game further helps those who wish to combat Snipers. I've spent many matches pinned in restock by constant demo-spam, despite racking up multiple kills per minute it's simply not possible to stop every player from getting close enough to spam you.

The reason why so many dislike the Sniper is because you have to put effort into preventing them from harming you on your way to their base. Most O players just want a safe and quick journey to their opponents base without losing any health or having to think much about what they are doing, the Sniper disrupts this and not many like that. Back in the day in TFC you only had to shotgun an offy Scout/Medic as you passed one another on the bridge to get insulted and abused for "backtracking". This silly attitude of "no one can hit me until I'm in their base", which is promoted by those equally silly O vs. D servers is something that needs to change. If an enemy runs past me, I'm going to shoot him, I don't care where he is, he needs to die because he's my enemy and nothing matters more than killing them other than capturing their flag.
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:54 PM   #15
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Most would associate me with sniping as that is the primary class I play. There are pluses and minuses to the class.

The BIG minus is when you have a sniper that only looks to shoot other snipers and lets everyone else go by. I think this is the main reason snipers get such a bad rep. That and people just want to complain when they die. Someone was doing this last night and it really annoyed me. As a sniper I obviously try to take out as many enemies as I can but the ones I do not take out I at least try to tag.. this is especially true for spies.

I agree it's a little weird having a slow pace class in a fast pace game but if used correctly they can be a very useful addition.
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Old 04-09-2009, 11:43 PM   #16
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The Sniper gets his hand held by the Developers and Admins. No, don't shoot at the Snipers and protect yourself, because that's considered spawn spam or camping; because Snipers tend to camp near their spawn to exploit this stupidity and so they can move back into position quickly. They're the strongest class in the game, in a sense.

All you have to do is hide behind a wall, charge up a full shot, and you can now kill every class (-hw?) in the game in one hit. If that isn't enough for you, aim at the head, where you can kill someone in one hit with only half the charge. Isn't enough for you? Shoot them in the leg. Cool! Now they're slowed down! Not slow enough? Stack the slow by popping them in the leg again. Awesome! Now they're fuckin' snail-pace. Now you can spam them in the head until they die. Oops! They got away. Too bad for them, though, my team knows where they are now to hunt them down and slaughter them. Sentry guns also shoot at them even if they were disguised, thanks to my Radio Tag.

Remove the legshot and radiotag, and I think the frustration from people would go down some, but not to a reasonable level. The Sniper has enough with his sniper rifle to take down pretty much every class, so why give him extra abilities? If you manage to make it across the yard from a Sniper, you have to deal with possible legshot or a radio tag? That's bullshit. You should be rewarded with not having to deal with anymore shit from the Sniper if you miraculously escape his fire. Bullshit, again, The Sniper will kill you, whether directly or indirectly.

Technically, the Sniper makes no point in this game, though. FF is about close-quarters combat where everyone has a chance to deal some damage. Where whether a player survives or dies is relevant to how skillfull he is. If a Sniper slugs someone in the leg then the head from behind some bushes across the map, there is no evaluation or comparison of skill. The Sniper's advantage is not skill, like every other class. It's the game holding his fucking hand with its shitty far-away-from-how-ff-should-be-played gamestyle.

There's also some bitching on the Sniper side. If you get a Scout or two to toss concs at the enemy sniper, its suddenly 'cheap' and 'not part of the game'. Toss a few gas nades up at the camping fuck, and suddenly you're spamming his spawn. Cloak around the exit of his spawn and wait to shank him in the back, spawn camping. I do agree it's bullshit to think you HAVE to be protected until you enter the enemy base, but it's equally bullshit to think you are immune to the very few situations where an enemy gets close enough to harm you.
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Old 04-09-2009, 11:54 PM   #17
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Our Sniper needs to be more like Quake's Railgun, or the Laser Rifle in TRIBES.

Basically be able to fire in the air, while moving, etc. Let's look at the classes who get a speed reduction via their weapon!

  • HW Guy
  • Sniper


Okay, HW Guy has a good reason, he's a goddamned tank. But the Sniper is built like a paper doll. So... yeah.

Basically they should be more mobile with their weaponry. This kinda stuff has been discussed at length but we have other major priorities before we can really address the Sniper at length.

For now, the game works pretty well in the sense of gameplay and balance. Yes, it could be better - and we have every intention of improving on it - but for now we have bigger fish to fry.
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:20 AM   #18
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I like the idea of a Railgun like Sniper rifle.

/strokes 50% Railgun accuracy on QL.

Bridget, the Sniper needs skill to kill you before you get near him, if he doesn't have skill in aiming then you will get to him almost always. A skilled Sniper will stop you getting close to him fairly often, but he still wont ever be able to stop the constant flow of enemies coming from their base.

A Sniper is annoying because you can't fight back immediately (apart from Engineer or Soldier rocket spam). Spawn spam is annoying because you can't fight back at all, unless you add more spam to the mix.

The balance of spam/restocking/spawn camping are all things that need looking at I think.
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Old 04-10-2009, 04:06 AM   #19
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The Sniper gets his hand held by the Developers and Admins. No, don't shoot at the Snipers and protect yourself, because that's considered spawn spam or camping; because Snipers tend to camp near their spawn to exploit this stupidity and so they can move back into position quickly. They're the strongest class in the game, in a sense.
these are the snipers that have no skill. theyre stupid. why would i want to stand at my base picking people off when i know that ultimately your goal is to get here? thats just dumb. a skilled sniper will go where the enemy doesnt see him as soon as he walks out their freakin base.

and on a side note, if your too stupid not to see a red laser flashing accross the map and walk in my direct path without even looking for the source, then you deserve to be shot in the leg and head. be aware of your surroundings. all most of you care about is running in guns blazing not giving a shit whats along the way. thats the first thing i do when playing offense, quickcheck all the hiding spots i would use as a sniper before proceeding into the enemy base. works wonders. when a skilled sniper knows someone is comming directly at them, they usually get off 1 shot and decide to either retreat, or break out the autorifle. which gives the other player a heavy advantage.

Bridget, i take it you are one of the MANY people who has bitched at me in-game about picking you off over and over again. boo hoo. its not my fault you round a corner and dont look both ways before crossing.

and whats even more stupid, people dont take 1 second to see where the shot came from after they die. they usually just keep clicking till they respawn and do it all over again in the same place. when i get shot by a sniper, i lay dead and look around until i see them. then i know exactly where to look.

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Old 04-10-2009, 04:45 AM   #20
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Resorting to insults because I play classes that take some engaging skill? Knowing where the Sniper is .. is useless. In addition, you only see the laser if it is placed on your head and you are angled in the direction of the Sniper.
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