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Old 11-08-2007, 09:41 AM   #1
=AS= Pt
 
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FF going to stores?!

I started this thread to see what is the opinion of the dev team, staff and all the other FF gamers...

Once FF is experiencing a problem called... "empty servers caused by few players", i would like to ask you all, what is your opinion, and what is the possibility of selling FF in stores, by it self alone, or with another game just like the orange box (HL2 Episode 3?! + FF).

My opinion is long expressed in the thread started by Jonhy mullet, in is opinion about FF, but i'll post here some of my points:

1- Selling games have a LOT MORE players playing them because they can find them easily (i'm talking about great games like FF).
2- Not much people know about FF...Even a lot of the TFC comunity i bet is playing TF2 because they never heard about FF.
3- A game beeing free doesn't show his value, and so, people will think that it doenst worth the trouble of installing it (i know it isnt totaly free because you have to bye source engine, but its not a direct connection)
4- Promoting mouth to mouth like ... Tell all your friends, isn't a long term option. Dont take me wrong, i do it all the time, but to realy LIVE, and be all it can an desirves to be, the game needs thousends of players playing at the same time, and that, in my opinion, won't be reached by mouth to mouth.
5- We have the example of TFC that was the most played game online because it was sold with hl1, and now TF2 that is being sold with Episode2. If we need to learn something with TF2 i guess it's this: "how to call people over, how to fill the servers with noobs" (like new players). And they do it because they sell it in the orange box.

I dont know the implications of this in the game, like patents of source engine, and patents for the game, so that's why i ask the opinion about the possibility of doing this.

I know we can seat and wait to see if all goes "well", an i REEEEAALLLYYYY am hoping for that, but in my opinion being known to TFC comunity and promoting mouth to mouth isnt going to make servers full... and we all saw that with TFC.

FF is fucking EXPECTACULAR ... Dev team as made a tremendous job, but people dont't know about it . That's the problem. Selling it in stores is, to me, the next logic step (if it can be done i mean).

Sorry for the 9.875.347 spelling and grammar erros. It's not my native

Regars.
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Old 11-08-2007, 12:05 PM   #2
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I don't know how you can say that people don't know about it when news was posted about it for years on every site that covers Half-Life mods, including its release and following patch. More than a thousand people apparently knew enough about it to download it when it was released. Except for a small minority, those people played it, then moved on like every other HL mod.

Maybe the problem isn't in getting the website link or installer file to everyone you can, but making a game everyone wants to play?
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Old 11-08-2007, 12:20 PM   #3
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They can't just sell FF since it uses the Source engine. In order to sell it, they would need to license the engine, which isn't cheap.

And to EngeeMan, not everyone visits those sites. While you are right that a lot of people did play it to begin with and decided to not play again, there's still a lot of people playing TFC/other games that have no knowledge of it.
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Old 11-08-2007, 12:21 PM   #4
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or maybe you're just forgetting the fact that many of us who actually play the game are old enough to have jobs, family, and the such and may not be able to play the game for hours every day. I love the game but, for the very reasons mentioned above, I have had very little time to play. However the amount of time that I will have available to play will increase here around the holidays as I have more time off work. This will hold true for just about anyone who plays. This also true of any players who are in school as the schools will be closing as well.

I admit that with main stream games the affect of the day to day life of the players is not nearly as noticeable but the FF community is a rather small community when compared to the main stream games. Give it some time through the holidays atleast. I would expect the number of players online to increase between now and the first of the year and with any luck those players will like the game and continue to play it beyond that point.
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Old 11-08-2007, 01:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EngeeMan
Maybe the problem isn't in getting the website link or installer file to everyone you can, but making a game everyone wants to play?
The honest and surprising truth is that I didn't know anything about Fortress-Forever until about a month before it was released. At that point, I became extremely excited at the thought of an alternative to my disappointed impressions of TF2.

Pt, putting FF in stores (as freeware) would be great, but I'm guessing that it's impossible for legal reasons. I like your attitude, though.

Engee, you're right, Fortress isn't a game everyone wants to play. Instead, it's a genuinely great game.

-Joker
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Old 11-08-2007, 01:57 PM   #6
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I have mentioned this before,

When will you retards get that it just isn't very popular; to me the reasons are unknown because I haven't played it. Remember it is just an unofficial mod you douches. Almost every Fucker that's familiar with Team Fortress knows about FF. In those spammy chatty servers people often bang on about FF,TF2 in TFC. See how many have registered to the fourms alone. 3019.

Edit: I am going to post this in any damn thread I see about this.

Last edited by Paft; 11-08-2007 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 11-08-2007, 02:17 PM   #7
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It wouldn't be freeware...That is just economicly impossible. No one would sell something in their shelfs if they dont profit with that (cause it too cost money).

I know that licencing the game isnt cheap, but they would have revenue on that. The selling of the game would give them return on investment. It would be a very large economic efford, i realise that, but if don well, it would have payback with profit, and the game would be a success.

Engeeman, the purpose of selling in stores its that everybody would know about FF, not just those people that already have played HL2 or TF, or that navigate throught those sites. I can tell you that i started playing TFC before i have ever visited a site, but because one guy gave me a copy of hl1 and told me about TFC i started my internet relation because of TFC. I would never ever get to play if it was just a online game, without hl1 i wouldn't play it. Not worth the risk of trying. Its the same principle as the orange box. Or you think TF2 has more people playing then FF cause its better? lol. They wish...

Hell...in a tremendous heresy(?! think it isnt writen that way) i would say that FF could join valve, and have the dev team working with them, not has a rival of TF2, but other game type. But this is just suposing, and i know that this last idea its like "what are you crazy? never!!!", but if not + not selling in stores, i'm afraid that we are going to be powned by TF2 way of distributing, and so much fantastic work wont have the claps it diserves.

But this just are hardcore ideas, to turn the situation. No holliday will make the game alive. It needs full servers, and for that needs LOTS of people playing.

Regards
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Old 11-08-2007, 02:23 PM   #8
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Actually the same thing that happened with CS could theoretically happen with FF......albeit CS had an immense fan base even before the retail release.

Same goes for DoD, which didn't explode like CS did in popularity, but was a solid game with a large amount of fans.

The biggest stumbling block is that if Valve did decide to contact the FF dev team about a retail FF, it would definitely not happen in the next 6 months or so, due to Valve marketing what can be seen as a competing game to TF2. This is a rather large hurdle, and quite some time would need to go by before Valve would consider selling a game like FF.

The shame is that there are many games out there, that you have to pay for, that aren't any better and sometimes worse than FF. I really like FF so that's about 90% worse BTW.

The bright side is that there can only be an increase in the amount of people who play FF regularly. I brought in many players, and hope to have a server up soon. Many of us will be playing it regardless of popularity.

Now we get to see if FF survives the COD4 and Crysis wave.
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Old 11-08-2007, 02:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paft
I have mentioned this before,

When will you retards get that it just isn't very popular; to me the reasons are unknown because I haven't played it. Remember it is just an unofficial mod you douches. Almost every Fucker that's familiar with Team Fortress knows about FF. In those spammy chatty servers people often bang on about FF,TF2 in TFC. See how many have registered to the fourms alone. 3019.

Edit: I am going to post this in any damn thread I see about this.
Paft i enjoy the fact that you are the only sane person here, and think that a mode of game that was the most played in internet has nobody to play it now...More...it is even best when a person that never played the game can say that its a shit cause its an un-oficial mode.You should play it before.

As for every "fucker" that plays TFC being familiar with FF, you are not right. But hell...it isnt those who play TFC already that will make FF live...cause they couldnt with TFC, its new people that can do it. Got my retarded idea?
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Old 11-08-2007, 02:28 PM   #10
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You may not be able to sell the actual game or provide it to stores, but I'm sure you can advertise the game nationally in stores, online etc... If you had the money.
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Old 11-08-2007, 02:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peon

The biggest stumbling block is that if Valve did decide to contact the FF dev team about a retail FF, it would definitely not happen in the next 6 months or so, due to Valve marketing what can be seen as a competing game to TF2. This is a rather large hurdle, and quite some time would need to go by before Valve would consider selling a game like FF.
I think you can be right. Thats why i say that the dev should make all the improvements it can now...make the game as perfec as it can be, and after it can be a chance. Because if it is profitable, Valve will sell it. If they have something to profit, i realy think they woun't throw away the possibility of selling a game that they hadnt the hard work to do. Its a already made product, and a good one. Timing? Maybe not the best now, but it will be...

Ty for reply. Very constructive
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Old 11-08-2007, 02:37 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by [StatisticZ]
You may not be able to sell the actual game or provide it to stores, but I'm sure you can advertise the game nationally in stores, online etc... If you had the money.
Agree... but in stores they will just advertise it, if they sell it. Advertise has a impliced cost that they would have to turn back, with the game selling.
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Old 11-08-2007, 02:41 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by =AS= Pt
I know that licencing the game isnt cheap, but they would have revenue on that. The selling of the game would give them return on investment. It would be a very large economic efford, i realise that, but if don well, it would have payback with profit, and the game would be a success.
What revenue? You need to be able to license the engine before you can sell it. I think you think this fee is only a few hundred dollars or something. I can't find the pricing info for licensing the Source engine, but Unreal Engine 2.0 (the engine used for UT2k3/UT2k4/UT2) costs $350,000 to license for 1 platform (i.e. PC) http://www.unrealtechnology.com/html...ng/terms.shtml. Quake 3's engine costs $250,000 to license http://www.idsoftware.com/business/t...echlicense.php. Heck, even Quake 2's engine is $10,000.

With all that said, that isn't even taking into account how much it would take to make the distribution materials and advertising for the game. Just slapping a box with FF in it on the store shelf without doing anything to let people know it's there means few will even see it.

The other route for getting FF into a store to sell would be if Valve bought the rights to FF. They would then be free to do whatever they wanted with it. However, that is usually reserved to games that have become pretty popular.
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Old 11-08-2007, 02:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhOsT
What revenue? You need to be able to license the engine before you can sell it. I think you think this fee is only a few hundred dollars or something. I can't find the pricing info for licensing the Source engine, but Unreal Engine 2.0 (the engine used for UT2k3/UT2k4/UT2) costs $350,000 to license for 1 platform (i.e. PC) http://www.unrealtechnology.com/html...ng/terms.shtml. Quake 3's engine costs $250,000 to license http://www.idsoftware.com/business/t...echlicense.php. Heck, even Quake 2's engine is $10,000.

With all that said, that isn't even taking into account how much it would take to make the distribution materials and advertising for the game. Just slapping a box with FF in it on the store shelf without doing anything to let people know it's there means few will even see it.

The other route for getting FF into a store to sell would be if Valve bought the rights to FF. They would then be free to do whatever they wanted with it. However, that is usually reserved to games that have become pretty popular.

That isnt that linear. Never said it was easy, i was asking for the possibility.If it could be done. If there is the possibility, then it takes a ground study, and viability tests.
The second idea of Valve bying the right its my second idea too. The only diference for this game and a popular one would be the price. Its a already made mod. That reduces costs of development A LOT. As a second "Box" Episode 3 + FF, i say it realy can be done. I just keep this idea in second place cause it would make the Dev team to lose power over the game. But i realise it would be the easyest way.

[[]]
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Old 11-08-2007, 02:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =AS= Pt
I think you can be right. Thats why i say that the dev should make all the improvements it can now...make the game as perfec as it can be, and after it can be a chance. Because if it is profitable, Valve will sell it. If they have something to profit, i realy think they woun't throw away the possibility of selling a game that they hadnt the hard work to do. Its a already made product, and a good one. Timing? Maybe not the best now, but it will be...

Ty for reply. Very constructive
^I agree with him saying not every "fucker" that plays TFC knows about FF. There were people in my clans pub server (chaos 2fort) that had no clue what FF was, when I was announcing that it was released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhOsT
What revenue? You need to be able to license the engine before you can sell it. I think you think this fee is only a few hundred dollars or something. I can't find the pricing info for licensing the Source engine, but Unreal Engine 2.0 (the engine used for UT2k3/UT2k4/UT2) costs $350,000 to license for 1 platform (i.e. PC) http://www.unrealtechnology.com/html...ng/terms.shtml. Quake 3's engine costs $250,000 to license http://www.idsoftware.com/business/t...echlicense.php. Heck, even Quake 2's engine is $10,000.

With all that said, that isn't even taking into account how much it would take to make the distribution materials and advertising for the game. Just slapping a box with FF in it on the store shelf without doing anything to let people know it's there means few will even see it.

The other route for getting FF into a store to sell would be if Valve bought the rights to FF. They would then be free to do whatever they wanted with it. However, that is usually reserved to games that have become pretty popular.
^God damn at the cost for the Unreal Engine 2, I'd bet the Source engine is in the millions to be licensed. Best bet would be waiting to see if Valve would attempt to pick it up. But then again, valve would fuck up FF if they got their hands on it.
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Old 11-08-2007, 03:10 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =AS= Pt
That isnt that linear. Never said it was easy, i was asking for the possibility.If it could be done. If there is the possibility, then it takes a ground study, and viability tests.
My point is that it is not possible. The devs do not make a living creating software nor do the have the capital to even get something like this off the ground.

Quote:
The second idea of Valve bying the right its my second idea too. The only diference for this game and a popular one would be the price. Its a already made mod. That reduces costs of development A LOT. As a second "Box" Episode 3 + FF, i say it realy can be done. I just keep this idea in second place cause it would make the Dev team to lose power over the game. But i realise it would be the easyest way.

[[]]
Why should they try and build up this mod and not any of the other mods struggling right now? What makes this mod any more deserving of it?
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Old 11-08-2007, 03:21 PM   #17
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Well, the old FF vs. TF2 debate/yelling match came up quite a bit on the TF2 servers, and it seemed just about everyone was aware of FF’s existence. (I can't play TF2 anymore, it makes me slit my wrists too much.)

The sad truth is, that most people prefer pretty graphics over exciting and complex game play, and this is why the entire gaming industry as a whole is taking the path that it is: extremely simplified games with very pretty graphics. TFC->TF2, needless to say, is the epitome of that regression.

FF 1.0 was a refreshing departure from that trend, but I know that those that prefer richer game play are vastly outnumbered by those that like simple game play and pretty pictures. Even FF itself is already losing game intensity and play aspects to that philosophy, with the less dynamic HWG and the loss of medic infection. More such changes may follow as desperation to bring players in by appealing to the lowest common denominator increases.

Those of us who like continuous action and strategy don't have much place in the FPS world, and those few islands we can find are rapidly sinking.

I just hope to the gods that NS2 comes through relatively intact - if anything, more complicated, rather than less. But I have this deadly fear it’ll be pure CO, as that’s the most complicated gameplay most people can handle.
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Old 11-08-2007, 03:35 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by GhOsT
My point is that it is not possible. The devs do not make a living creating software nor do the have the capital to even get something like this off the ground.
Thats why i said it isnt linear. To do something that is going to have revenue, you have to have money or need to have a good project and have money. If the Dev team realy believes they have here a good project, then they can make a viability test, and if it has positive ROI, then that amount isnt unafourdable in loanes. This days with the subprime problems it would be lot harder to get one, but what i am sayind, is that if the is a competent study about this action, and that gives a positive revenue, and once its a high risk investment, a very high revenue in percentage of investment, it can be done. That is what i am saying. Shit, i am thinking of open a half Million business, and i will have financing on that. Not saying that its easy, or even not saying that it should be done. It is hard, it possibly could be done, but i respect the opinion that it wont or that its too risky. I'm just saying it should be considered. Even with those needs of capital.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GhOsT
Why should they try and build up this mod and not any of the other mods struggling right now? What makes this mod any more deserving of it?
What mades this mode diferente? It would be a marginal low cost developed game (this cost would be the amount the dev team would whant for it), that would go in the direction of the desires of lots of gamers, and would get their gamma of product larger. If they named it TFC Forever it would made the number of players in Valves game grow. I dont say that Valve should have the initiative. It could be an offer of the dev not to let the game die (if in the next period of time, players wont come and play). Valve would just accept it if they get money from it (+ in FF, Vs - TF2...if this correlation is positive they accept), and if they would...well FF or TFCF would live long happy years.
The Dev team would have made the mode, would have our eternal respect, and a pocket full of money. Valve would have more € too, and we players would give the dev team all the respect they diserve, and have the most kicking game on the net to play with lot of full servers.

(My opinions)
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Old 11-08-2007, 03:38 PM   #19
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Why should they try and build up this mod and not any of the other mods struggling right now? What makes this mod any more deserving of it?
Because the spirit of TF has traditionally been carried through to just about every engine in existence, and Valve failed miserably with TF2, being created primarily by CS players who never liked TFC to begin with, and marketers who aimed their guns right at that bulk of young players who live in the LCD. HL1’s days are numbered, Steam is rapidly assimilating all PC gaming markets, and the true TFC fans need a real TF mod to play. I dunno if FF will continue to retain that true TF spirit, but they are the last, best hope for the mod being passed properly to the next generation of gamers - and if they can live up to the task, I‘ll do everything in my power to make sure Jigglypuff hosts an FF server another seven years. If nothing else, it will serve as a last island of hope to those of us who look upon the wasteland of game remakes that are stripped down, glittering, slow motion versions of the original intricate and action-packed creations we once loved so much, and feel the younger gamers are being robbed of their very minds.

May the gods save the FF crew! Long live the real TF! Amen!
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Old 11-08-2007, 03:42 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Saint Thoth
Well, the old FF vs. TF2 debate/yelling match came up quite a bit on the TF2 servers, and it seemed just about everyone was aware of FF’s existence. (I can't play TF2 anymore, it makes me slit my wrists too much.)

The sad truth is, that most people prefer pretty graphics over exciting and complex game play, and this is why the entire gaming industry as a whole is taking the path that it is: extremely simplified games with very pretty graphics. TFC->TF2, needless to say, is the epitome of that regression.

FF 1.0 was a refreshing departure from that trend, but I know that those that prefer richer game play are vastly outnumbered by those that like simple game play and pretty pictures. Even FF itself is already losing game intensity and play aspects to that philosophy, with the less dynamic HWG and the loss of medic infection. More such changes may follow as desperation to bring players in by appealing to the lowest common denominator increases.

Those of us who like continuous action and strategy don't have much place in the FPS world, and those few islands we can find are rapidly sinking.

I just hope to the gods that NS2 comes through relatively intact - if anything, more complicated, rather than less. But I have this deadly fear it’ll be pure CO, as that’s the most complicated gameplay most people can handle.
If thats the truth, (and i respect that idea of grsf Vs skill)then just let Valve Have the game and made it available like those in Hl1. If it is a dying game at birth at least there would be more people playing it. If not, let us old players continue with FF like it is and do our delight against each other

AMEN to TF crew
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