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Old 07-08-2013, 06:30 PM   #1
Dylstew
 
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Soldier and HWguy too much armor/health?

I'm pretty new to this game I play a lot of TF2 .there's just one thing that bothers me. The health of the soldier and HWguy. I mean, 80% damage reduction and higher health? I calculated, it takes 21 close range shotgun and 10 close range super shotgun hits to kill a soldier or heavy. For other classes the maximum of super shotgun hits at close range to kill is only 5.
I'm sorry, but isn't this a bit too much?
There's also another thing, the pyro. The only reason the pyro is fun to me in TF2 in my opinion is the Airblast/compression blast mechanic. but in here, all you can do is shoot a close range rocket and burn with the flamethrower. The standard shotgun is pretty damn weak, so that doesn't help much.

I don't really want to complain, but I'm just trying to give the perspective of a new player(I've known this game for a longer time tough, but it's just that EU people barely play, but when I did play it was really fun).

In TF2 I main scout and pyro,but in this game the pyro can't airblast and the scout is just a flag capper with a shotgun that barely does damage, so instead I'd rather play medic. But is that really all the scout should be? a class where you just cap the flag and try to dodge/defend yourself, but never attack anything?


What's the reason the heavy should have so much HP/armor? It's not like it's hard to kill anything as him, it's probably one of the easiest/most boring class to kill people with. Also, what's the point of the normal shotgun if it's that weak?

Last edited by Dylstew; 07-08-2013 at 06:33 PM.
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:50 PM   #2
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Well they are balanced to be slower/heavier/stronger classes. Use some grenades in conjunction with those super shotgun shots and they can be taken down without much effort. The single shotty is more of a long-range weapon where the super shotty would have a wider spread and a more difficult time dealing damage. Most people use the single shotty if they've done damage do an opponent who is running away with the flag and is out of range with the super shotty.

The HW class has a sort-of-similar air blast technique. I agree that the pyro needs an update, but with limited development resources, I'm sure it is diffuclt for the current developers to create new weapons or try to rethink the burn effect.

Heavy is powerful, but from what I've seen, there are far worse enemies such as the soldier or even a well placed and well maintained Sentry Gun.
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:06 PM   #3
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The presence of grenades and the speed at which attackers arrive at the base evens out the strength of the d classes. It's been carefully balanced over the years so the o can break through at a non-frustrating pace assuming everyone knows how to play. In tf2 it's quite a trip to get back to the action once you die. In this game it shouldn't take you more than 7 seconds as medic or scout to get to the enemy base on most maps.

If you haven't learned to conc jump yet I would start there, otherwise you're way too slow. Medics and scouts should always use their first conc to cross the yard or use the jumppad if it's a small yard.

As far as scouts moving flags goes, it's not as easy as you think. In tf2 all you do is walk. In this game you should spend almost all of your time either concing, sliding, or bunny hopping. You need to time the concs for each map so when you have to stop somewhere, your next one is ready to go. Speed is the key and this alone makes for a challenging class.
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:39 PM   #4
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I agree with cake and kube here, the point of the game is the vast difference between O and D classes.

Modern games just don't have that.

I was playing Killing Floor today because it's free week on it, and in that the only difference between the classes is how expensive the weapons are / slight buffs in damage with certain weapons / 1 main difference, such as grenades thrown by Medic's don't explode, they turn into gas which harms specimens and heals players.

In FF, every class has it's own technique.

Once you learn the technique of a class, you get better and better at that class. You become specialised at helping your team with that class.

I admit, it's complicated to learn the in's and out's of every class, and that there's little variety when you play the same class over and over again, but it's just the charm of FF.

First you get drawn in by the quick movement and gameplay, then you get stuck playing because you've learnt a class so well. (Not that that's a bad thing - rather the reason so many people still play FF. Same with other old TF games, I'd assume.)
TF2 has this in a different way. You go back because of your weapons, not your knowledge of the game.

For me, the class I've played the most of would be Scout.
Although I'm not the best at Scout anyway, because of the heavy reliance on movement techniques, which I'm OK at, but I'm below the average of people who've played FF for the amount of time I have at every single movement technique.

In fact, I think FF is the first game I played where I had to learn a movement technique to play the game well & the first game where I did learn a movement technique.

I'm not too good at bhopping, I can't switch directions in a single jump, like the mental swerves I see people doing on pickups.
I'll screw up a conc all the time. I can never time them right either. I totally suck at conc maps. The furthest I've got on conc_adam as a Scout is the start of Jump 4.
I can't surf at all. Although I'm starting to be OK at this now.
I'm good at trimping, I guess. But maps tend not to have trimping in them
(well, apart from the rampslide-trimp in aardvark).
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:47 PM   #5
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Also, it may feel a bit daunting seeing people fly across the map and grabbing your flag almost too fast for you to react. If you are interested in learning certain movement techniques, try playing some trimp maps or other skill maps. There are plenty of maps that will help you hone your skills and improve your reflexes. If you have any questions or need help, don't hesitate to ask.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:58 PM   #6
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I love how if a post on here about how FF is unbalanced pops up and it says "pretty new to FF" at the start everyone immediately just says "because you can't play good enough to realise yet". :P
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm999 View Post
I love how if a post on here about how FF is unbalanced pops up and it says "pretty new to FF" at the start everyone immediately just says "because you can't play good enough to realise yet". :P
however ive never seen anyone complain about balance on general forums if there not new.

to guy that asking:
this game is nothing like tf2 other than it has nine classes. also play the movement tutorial it helps. my best advice is patience takes awhile to pick up especially if your coming form tf2.
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylstew View Post
In TF2 I main scout and pyro,but in this game the pyro can't airblast and the scout is just a flag capper with a shotgun that barely does damage, so instead I'd rather play medic. But is that really all the scout should be? a class where you just cap the flag and try to dodge/defend yourself, but never attack anything?
The medic is really all the tf2 scout is and more. His load out makes him a serious DM class. If you can use his concs and frags along with his weapons, then no target should really be hard to deal with.

So don't think of the scout as a scout that can't DM. Think of the scout as "fasty mc fast pants flag capper" and think of the medic as "scout".
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:21 AM   #9
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tldr

in short no, this should not be made into some shitty game where you get the illusion of classes but in essence they all do the same thing (kill others in 2-3 hits and there's no point in securing objectives before killing the enemy), with the exception of the medic

That is one of the biggest core problems with TF2 - everything is homogenized as fuck and feels boring

scout twoshots other classes with his shotgun
Soldier twoshots other classes with his shotgun
Heavy kills other classes in a comparable time with his AC
Nothing gets done until all the DMing is over, at which case you run the flag or push something or whatever but the main thing is the DMing


It's boring as all fuck.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:33 AM   #10
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That was pleasant ray.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:06 AM   #11
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I never took grenades into consideration. yeah , I did notice FF medic is pretty much TF2 scout. I get why you wouldn't want to change anything. but still ,pyro is pretty boring, there should be something that makes him more interesting imo. Than there's also the fact that on certian maps/teams certian classes are playable, and there's no respawn time. I really like that the game's not a mess even tough there's norespawntime. Norespawntime TF2 turns into a giant mess. FF's norespawntime makes it fun and fast paced, even if you're sucking at the game like me. It also makes the game fun with a lower playercount than the ususal 24 or 32, it's fun to play with 10 or 12.

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Old 07-09-2013, 10:08 AM   #12
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The pyro has stacked afterburn dmg. So if you tag someone with one incendiary they get a lvl 1 burn that does so much damage. But tag them with all your incendiary weapons and they get a lvl 3 burn. It's OP, annoying, and a highly undeserved mechanic. Honestly I don't feel like DoTs belong in an FPS.

Because of that the pyros probly not gonna get any buffs or anything like that. But I think it's the general desire of everyone to give pyro a complete overhaul. So that may be an option in the future if anyone had any good ideas.

Personally I'd like to see the pyro stripped of all after burn and left in a corner to rot. But that doesn't really go along with your desire of a more fun pyro experience

So if you have any ideas go ahead and share them. But I don't think reflects are likely to make it in. Pyro is rage inducing enough as it is.

Alternatively, if you're looking for more fun, get to know the flame push mechanics. The flamethrower has some lift to it. You can basicly jet pack around or shoot it behind you to gain speed while bhoping. Nades can help get your jet pack momentum going. There's a few other tricks with the flamethrower push back as well.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:25 AM   #13
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Yeah, the jetpack is loads of fun. Pyro and Sniper are still terrible classes though.

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Old 07-10-2013, 07:03 AM   #14
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Yeah, the jetpack is loads of fun. Pyro and Sniper are still terrible classes though.

first thing that came to mind after i read your post.
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