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Old 09-25-2007, 04:57 AM   #1
SoBe Green
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Half-Life 2.net Review

http://www.halflife2.net/2007/09/20/...ver-v1-review/

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Were there no competing Team Fortress games I would slap a 9/10 sticker on this mod and move on, but in the current context that wouldnít be particularly helpful. Instead, Iíll say this. If youíve played TFC and you like bunnyhopping and grenade spamming, try Fortress Forever out. See if you like it. You might be pleasantly surprised, but donít expect to delete good olí TFC from your Steam list just yet. On the other hand, if youíre new to the world of Team Fortress, just buy the Orange Box. Having played in the beta I can tell you that Team Fortress 2 is a bloody brilliant game, and as long as youíre not interested in training in the ancient oriental art of jumping like a rabbit (Iím sure most people reading this review donít even know what I mean by that), then TF2 is a far superior game to both Team Fortress Classic and Fortress Forever.
Hopefully there isn't any flaming for this. Sadly a lot of this review is true. This isn't me saying "FF sucks" or "TF2 is better!" its about the future of the TF community in general. And before any of you go blasting on me about hating FF, know that I was here back when the message boards had less than 100 registered users and posted for over a year before taking a break. Hopefully instead of locking this we can have a mature discussion. FF is a great game period and I love every second I play in it but this review brings in a lot of fine points about FF that will need to be addressed in the future. Its not a competition about two games but how one of the two can represent what we know as TF.
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Old 09-25-2007, 05:19 AM   #2
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Most of the criticisms of FF l've seen are usually not valid, but this review really makes a good point regarding the graphics. As much as l hate to say it, l think it's the first weak point of the mod. There are times l have confused enemies and friends and confused roles from a distance. In the heat of battle it can really mess up your priority in targets.

l know we shouldn't compare the two, but TF2 has such great art direction that it's worth mentioning. In this video we can see the huge amount of effort that went into each character designed to be easily recognizable from anywhere. It's the cartoonish nature that allows each class to be exaggerated to a degree that makes them not only look good, but functional too. The problem with FF is finding a design that will stay true to the TF series, but still unique and distinct. It's hard to tell which way the devs were going with the art, but l'm short on ideas.
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Old 09-25-2007, 07:52 AM   #3
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I found it harder to differentiate between people on my team than classes, though I guess that was tough too.

I think though that this game really needs to be reviewed as a niche mod. Whether or not it's mainstream I really can't say yet, though I can definitely see the devs have tried to make it more mainstream. I guess the biggest problem is targeting it at a certain audience. Right now, it exists to appease TFC players (which is *not* a bad thing). However, this fact means that, to a wider audience, there's quite a lot that's unappealing.

Does that mean a more general audience can't like it? No - I was never huge on TFC (I didn't hate it, but never played it avidly) and I enjoyed FF. It seems though that there might be just a little too much catered towards TFC players. I know that sounds weird, but it feels like there hasn't been enough done to push itself through as a mod of its own. However, I think the next few updates for FF could hold great potential.
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:04 AM   #4
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I think the review is extremely poor, and I'm a bit surprised this was posted on the front page.

Mentioning TF2 was of course unavoidable, but why do this repeatedly ? Wasn't this a FF review ? First sign that something's wrong..

"The former is firmly rooted in the past, whilst the latter looks to the future."
This sentence made me jump a little. It just shows right from the bat that the review is biased and relies on prejudice. TF2 just has to be better since it's newer, right ? What ?

One of the staples of FF, movement control, something pretty unique as far as mods go (apart from TF2, all TF mods include this) isn't visited or tried to explain, but just quickly mentioned at the end in a unambiguously mocking manner. ("lol jumping rabbits teehee. oh by the way i won't ever try to explain what it's about !")

The reviewer states that FF is all in all a good modification, but never actually explains why. There isn't a single screenshot, which clearly shows not a lot of effort was put into the review. For crying out loud, he states clearly to avoid FF and just play TF2 if you haven't played TFC before ? What ? One can't help wondering about this. Why is that ? No explanation will be given.

I'd be surprised if the reviewer spent more than a day playing Fortress Forever, let alone a few hours. The review is seriously flawed and a disgrace that it was put on a major site such as HL2.net.

Last edited by IvaQuaL; 09-25-2007 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:28 AM   #5
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Well he never said TF2 was better, but the comment regarding the direction the mods were based on isn't entirely untrue. The designs both go their separate ways in this sense, but I think there could have been more care expressing this. I think he's merely commenting on how each team approached the game.
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:43 AM   #6
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I have to agree, the review is poor.


^ That image above, makes it even worse.

TF2 Fan boy I see.
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:47 AM   #7
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Erm, that image kind of sums it up really, like it or not.
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:48 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike.Gayner
Erm, that image kind of sums it up really, like it or not.
It could have been made better, and less "offensive".
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:50 AM   #9
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Is that opposed to the copious use of the "fail-boat" here - or just expecting more from a review? (genuine question).

Because, it's pretty accurate. It isn't offensive unless you happen to be offended by making the relation between TFC and FF. I guess it's in the interpretation =P
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:45 AM   #10
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I think we should all try to stop making our minds up about the future of both mods and just lets see what happens

i love TFC and thats why i chose FF over tf2
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:48 AM   #11
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That review is so poorly made.

He spends the first sections trying to be funny and failing, then spends the last paragraph or two going against stuff he said earlier on and in the middle spents the best part of a paragraph, maybe two reviewing the mod. By review I mean saying what bits suck.

What irks me is all the negative stuff then saying he'd give it 9/10...but only if TF2 wasnt around. That shouldnt have any weighting on the matter if another similar game is around.

The review just seems to be going nowhere half the time.

Quote:
It’s important, therefore, not to compare Fortress Forever to TF2 – as they are both trying to be very different games.
Quote:
TF2 is a far superior game to both Team Fortress Classic and Fortress Forever.
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:59 AM   #12
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lol....jumping around like a rabbit.

I told you guys ...the Dev's to keep that damn Rabbit jumping out. Just more of the same TFC exploit crap in FF...but easier.

I know...the community wanted it..majority rules.
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Old 09-25-2007, 12:09 PM   #13
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The elitist clan players wanted it - it's also a surefire way to make newbs hate the game, and destroy the community.
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Old 09-25-2007, 12:32 PM   #14
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Mike, maybe you're being sarcastic or flaming intentionally, but the fast movement is the basis of what makes FF(/TFC) so fun for many ppl. FF has rightly done it's best to improve on this and make it as accessible and easy to learn as possible, but even in this dumbed down state (compared to TFC) FF is still a game that requires a lot of skill and practice to master. A game having so much depth like FF will inevitably scare off some ppl, but it's this depth that keeps ppl loving the game and learning new things even after many years. As well as the veterans, there will also be new players who are attracted to the game because of it's depth (this was how I myself got into TFC: I saw ppl doing crazy cool tricks with conc grens, and wanted to learn to do it. Concs are ofc just one tiny part of the potential skills to learn in the game, but my interest started from there. Even after playing the game for many years now, I'd say I've probably mastered about 1/4 of the players skills at most, and I still learn new things all the time. Anyway, that's how I got into TFC!).

And yeah I saw that review the other day and laughed pretty hard. It got even funnier when I went to their forums and saw ppl actually thinking they were having a semi-intellectual discussion about it... So many contradictions, errors, and lack of comprehension I don't even know which ones to point out.
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Old 09-25-2007, 12:54 PM   #15
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I guess the same could have been said about TF2, here =P

Has any other place done reviews? Wouldn't mind what other places think.
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Old 09-25-2007, 01:04 PM   #16
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you barely get any speed advantage of bunny hopping now except you are slightly harder to hit, but its not like you can bunny hop and aim efficient.
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Old 09-25-2007, 01:35 PM   #17
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Quote:
certain classes have been tweaked (most notably, the engineer’s teleports have been axed)
Quote:
Before I go into criticism mode....
GUYS HES ABOUT TO GET CRITICAL IN THE SECOND TO LAST PARAGRAPH WATCH OUT.

I laughed.

I give this review of FF a 5/10.
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Old 09-25-2007, 02:47 PM   #18
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The author of that article writes on a high school / JR high level - so dont put too much credit with it.

When writing a professional article, the author should reframe from using the words "I" and "you." This practice is taught in the most basic of college grammar classes. When using the word "I," the author is trying to bring attention to him/her instead of the subject matter. With a quick glance at the article, 5 - "I's" were counted. This shows the author is more focused on what he/she "feels" about the the game, instead of the facts surrounding the game.

Perhaps websites like half-life2.net should be a little more picky about their authors writing skills. This is a poorly written article by a lower educated person (maybe a JR High (middle school) drop out) author.

In other words - who ever wrote this does not have clue!! Who knows, maybe the author had to look up fortress-forever in wikipedia before he/she wrote the article.

Editor - Write an article about FF.

Author - what is FF?

Editor - I dont know, look it up. Its a mod that was just released.

Author - ok, I'll write something up if I have to.

Editor - yea write something up so google will index our site with the key words "fortress-forever."
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Old 09-25-2007, 03:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~kev~
The author of that article writes on a high school / JR high level - so dont put too much credit with it.
Exactly.

Besides, FF is not the "bastard child" of TFC. TFC and FF are like step brothers whose father is the TF genre, but tfc's mother is valve, while FF's mother is the TF fanbase.
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Old 09-25-2007, 03:12 PM   #20
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bad review. FF has pros and contras. unfortunately this review couldn't point out what FF is like or why it is so interesting for the gaming world:[
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