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So what muchez is muchez its his life no one is gonna say what he can or cant do on a video game so people just need to drop this....its a fucking dieing video game. why ban all of us when only one person has the script and clowneh wont give it out to anyone else sooo wtf is there to worry about......people are taking this so seriously and its in a way funny and stupid.......say there are 10 people in the clan, 1 person has the script how many people dont have it......

[zSilver_Fox]

Edit button, Scuzzy? Anyway, since you're set in your opinion of the entire ESAD community, I won't bother arguing against it.

A clan vs a guild? A clan typically does league play and tournaments and other stuff such as that. A guild is a community.

And am I Muchez? I sometimes wish I was. Maybe to you people aren't respected for the skills they develop through hard work, but to the skills community, Muchez is. None of you know him outside of this, or the ESAD community. It's rather laughable.

Get out of my bubble? Lol. Some of you need to learn the difference between what a clan stands for, and an isolated incident. You kept pushing on with the bullshit against ESAD, Scuzzy. That's when he got tired of it. Quite honestly, you may be the one to start up such a policy, as Trojan's gotten tired of all the bullshit you're pushing.

Also, I explained to you in a PM why the post which I deleted was written in such a manner. Alzheimers kicking in, buddy?

[nex nicholai]

Originally Posted by GhostinG

Look at your ban list, over 23 pages of banned people, what does that say about your rules? Not many people agree with them.

I think the fact that they have that many bans and their server has steady traffic shows that they found a good way to play how they like.

Originally Posted by silver_fox

The blanket ban of all ESAD members, including those who have never even heard of the OT server, based on the actions of one person and Trojan's comments is possibly the most senile thing I've ever seen in this dying community.

ESAD should not care about a ban from a server that they do not wish to play on. Since they obviously dont wish to contribute to the server, the only reason to be there would be to cause trouble.

Originally Posted by GhostinG

Yes you do pay for it, yes, it is your server but if you don't want people like muchez going around and doing stupid shit like that learn to lighten up. Its a dieing game, so of course the player size has went down alot which leaves mainly the older players, so you will find people like muchez alot more often considering there are a max of 500 servers left.

With that logic I could say that I dont like the color of your skin, your religious beliefs or your sexual orientation, therefore you should expect (and accept) that until you see things my way you will have your personal property fucked with.

As for the "dont take server crashing so seriously" comments...
If scuzz (or any server op) didnt take a hard stance on issues like this, then the assholes of the internet would always get their way. All he has done is make a statement (enforced by bans) that ESAD has no place on his server. You are the one taking up the debate in defense of your ill-chosen friend. If you didnt take this seriously, would you continue to post about it?

[nex nicholai]

Originally Posted by zSilver_Fox

You kept pushing on with the bullshit against ESAD, Scuzzy. That's when he got tired of it. Quite honestly, you may be the one to start up such a policy, as Trojan's gotten tired of all the bullshit you're pushing.

Skuzz hasnt pushed anything on ESAD. He hasnt gone to ESAD's server and told trojan how to run it. A member of o-t didnt crash ESAD's server.

All he did was enforce the rules of his server. He has every right to decide who does and does not play there.

[Circuitous]

Originally Posted by zSilver_Fox

And am I Muchez? I sometimes wish I was. Maybe to you people aren't respected for the skills they develop through hard work, but to the skills community, Muchez is. None of you know him outside of this, or the ESAD community. It's rather laughable.

Who cares? Guy's a dick.

im not taking it seriously but its fucking stupid how you all claim to be mature and adults and you are all still arguing about this. im getting sick of reading stupid shit about esad. just becuase you are not in the clan, you see things diffrently, say esad was your clan, and you knew that a player was probably one of the best in the world at a game. Would you kick him out just becuase you know he is going around crashing servers? This stupid shit has been going on for a few days now and its fucking stupid. so if there is anyone to blame, it is clowneh and muchez not ESAD itself. Esad has done nothing wrong, its 1 of the people in esad that has done harm to your server not anyone else, trojan says have fun with getting your server crashed just becuase muchez knows that you guys are getting pissed about it and taking such a "huge" action about this by banning all esad members from your servers. so this provokes him into wanting to crash it more to piss you guys off more.....

[Circuitous]

Originally Posted by GhostinG

just becuase you are not in the clan, you see things diffrently, say esad was your clan, and you knew that a player was probably one of the best in the world at a game. Would you kick him out just becuase you know he is going around crashing servers?

Yeah, but then again I put "not being a dick" over "being good at a video game."

It seems a pretty easy choice to make if you have any idea what's important in life.

it is a video game, you are suppose to have fun, if hes having fun at your expense so be it. its not our fault that he does what he does so stop saying esad is this esad is that becuase esad alone has done absolutely nothing wrong at all.

[Circuitous]

I've never said anything about ESAD.

Anyway, if we're supposed to have fun, why is he trying to stop that? See, this guy's a total dick.

[Ginger Lord]

If it was a real sport such as Football then this sort of behaviour would not be tolerated.

Imagine David Beckham not liking the turf at Old Trafford and going and punching Alex Ferguson and burning Old Trafford down. I don't think he'd be a very popular man or get away with it for very long.

So what if he's the best guy in the world at something, its the bad things you are remembered for and judged on.

[Circuitous]

Right?

The only reason ESAD need be involved is because they tolerate (and almost encourage, it seems) some dick bearing their name, ruining fun for other people because, well, he's a dick. It's pretty shitty for everyone except you guys, and the only reason it's not shitty for you guys is 'cuz no one's getting their rocks off by crashing your shit. The rest of it, pfft, it's the internet. Blow it off. Who cares what a buncha guys think about you (I'll let slide the constant replying that indicates at least subtly that this bothers you).

[nex nicholai]

If someone in my guild/clan was server crashing or cheating I wouldnt hesitate to kick them out on the basic principle that I would wouldnt want the guild/clan's name drug through the mud.

ESAD took the stance that they dont care about munchez's actions because they dont like o-t's rules. Why would they care if they are all banned from a server they dont want to play on?

Munchez overestimates the effects of his actions if this encourages him to crash more servers. I dont think that any of us feel genuine anger towards someone proving how much of a douchebag he is.

but its not real life it is a video game, a dieing video game at that and i didnt say you said anything about esad, scuzzy keeps saying esad is full of nothing but server crashers this is fucking stupid and pointless to bring all this up in 3 different forums go outside or something insted of sitting here on the fucking computer talking shit about a guild. we never had shit with o-t until scuzzy said that all of esad is full of server crashers and stupid shit. muchez is a dick i will agree and he doesn't have the right to crash your server but you have no right of accusing people of something they haven't done..............esad is not about ruining the game, if we wanted to ruin the game, would myself or trojan still map for it? and actually play the game the right way? such as siscos and others in esad? no we would do what muchez is doing but we dont......

[Scuzzy]

Originally Posted by GhostinG

Look at your ban list, over 23 pages of banned people, what does that say about your rules? Not many people agree with them.

Do we have a lot of bans? That depends on how you look at it. Do we keep our environment free of assholes? Yep. Let's take a look at the numbers for a moment.

Number of unique players to visit our servers in the last 2.5 years: 43,517
Number of total bans over the last 4 years: 1,172
Number of Hidden:Source bans caught by Scuztools for intentional team killing: 201
Number of server bans that were "Additional Steam-ID of previously banned account.": 135
Number of true server bans: 836
Percentage of players banned: 1.92% **
** includes TFC, NeoTF, and HLDM servers.

So less then 2% of the people in the last 4 years have been complete assholes and needed to be banned. That's not bad. The other 98.08% have been a lot of fun to play with.

Of those 836, what did they do to get banned... let's take a quick look at some of them that can be categorized easily:

Bans before record keeping began: 166
General Language issues (multiple warnings, several kicks, finally banned): 136
Racism: 90
Intentionally ignoring server policies (general continued issues): 77
General Llama: 51
Disrespecting players or clan members: 32
Hacks: 22
Sexual predators (police notified): 9
Bhopping: 2

Notes for these two bhopping bans:

First one: "Warned about bhopping rules, continued. (previous STA and UGC bhop hacks as well)"
Second one: "bhopping and multiple player complaints, confronted him and he got lippy."

Drama-Bans: 3
Exploits: 4

Most bans require multiple issues and warnings prior to their removal from the environment. Are 800+ bans a lot? Our of 43,000+ visitors we don't think so, most people are able to adapt and enjoy themselves on our server.

Do we have enough good people playing on our box on a regular basis? I think so, enough to know many of them personally and have fun. "Regular players" are players that have played on our machine 25 out of the last 60 days. (3 or 4 times a week)

Number of players that have played 25 out of the last 60 days: 69
Number of players that have played 100 days out of the last 365: 89
Number of players that have played 200 days out of the last 365: 33
Number of addicts - 300 days out of the last 365: 11

We aren't the most popular server in the world, but we aren't the most unpopular either. We're baby bear porridge, we're juuuuuuusst right. If you think banning 1.92% of our visitors over 4 years constitutes "power crazy admins" and "community hates the rules" you're welcome to do so. The people we have as regulars enjoy the environment, the 50+ clan members enjoy the environment, those are the people that matter.

Scuzzy

[Circuitous]

But ESAD is only banned in addition to Muchez for apparently supporting his actions, here and elsewhere. Has anyone, before now, actually said "We think what Muchez did was wrong"? It's mostly been "You should've seen this coming," hasn't it?

I don't blame Scuzzy for banning ESAD at all with that sort of attitude, regardless of what they actually do.

Originally Posted by Scuzzy

. The people we have as regulars enjoy the environment, the 50+ clan members enjoy the environment, those are the people that matter.

Scuzzy

soooooooooooooooo what happend to you looking out for the community in fact if u take ur stupid ass percentages and compare them with the people total now
there is no where near 43,000 people now so those statistics are stupid.......i dont care how many people come to your server it doesnt prove anything, its for people who are new to the game, i have infact played on your server and half of the people reminded me of bots becuase alot of them did not know what they are doing.

[nex nicholai]

Originally Posted by nex nicholai

If someone in my guild/clan was server crashing or cheating I wouldnt hesitate to kick them out on the basic principle that I would wouldnt want the guild/clan's name drug through the mud.

You guys dont understand why people are saying these things about ESAD? Its because someone wearing your tags is doing these things, therefore acting as a representative of your guild. It doesnt matter if everyone in your guild is crashing servers, just that you accept someone who does.

We know its not real life and we know that TFC is an old game. So your guild was banned from a server that runs that same game. No "real world" consequences are on the table. I think the scope of the reaction is apt.

[Circuitous]

Originally Posted by GhostinG

soooooooooooooooo what happend to you looking out for the community in fact if u take ur stupid ass percentages and compare them with the people total now
there is no where near 43,000 people now so those statistics are stupid.......i dont care how many people come to your server it doesnt prove anything, its for people who are new to the game, i have infact played on your server and half of the people reminded me of bots becuase alot of them did not know what they are doing.

Aw.

So basically you want TFC to just die, then. Sad. I thought you loved the game?

[TheWetMule]

Muchez you giant cockdouche, you need to stop being gay at life and sucking at TFC, then threads like this wouldn't be created!

All in favour of banning Muchez from life say AYEEEEEEEEEEEE

P.S I have a general hate for Muchez, who woulda guessed :P?

[Scuzzy]

Originally Posted by zSilverFox

A clan vs a guild? A clan typically does league play and tournaments and other stuff such as that. A guild is a community.

[o-t] doesn't league play, we're a clan, not a guild. Guilds, in my experience, are dedicated to specific classes, i.e. the Silent Stalkers spy guild headed up by Digital Ghost. I think we (you and I) can know that when we say clan we mean your definition of guild, and vice versa.

Originally Posted by GhostinG

scuzzy keeps saying esad is full of nothing but server crashers

I have never said this. I quoted what their leader and their clan members have said in threatening to crash our server and that crashing servers with rules you don't like is "OK". I haven't seen any members come out and say that policy isn't ok. I have said that it is the policy of ESAD itself, but not that each and every member of ESAD is a server crasher.

Originally Posted by Ghosting

say esad was your clan, and you knew that a player was probably one of the best in the world at a game. Would you kick him out just becuase you know he is going around crashing servers?

Abso-fucking-lutely. His actions and TrojanMan's support of him reflects directly on your clan. Look at the mess it's gotten you into.