Elected Representatives crossing state lines as a stalling tactic

Innoc · 02-25-2011, 11:33 PM

I'm sure most of you have heard a little something about the situation in Wisconsin. I'm sure you all know this isn't the only technique used to stall movement in legislative bodies. However, I wonder how many of you believe that it's ok to simply leave your job to stall an action you don't like? Yeah, my bias is evident I'm sure. I am however curious if there's anyone here that believes that it's a legitimate action on the part of the objectors. Do you likewise believe that there should be no consequence for what it is they do by avoiding their duty.

Iggy · 02-26-2011, 01:02 AM

They took a page from the Nazi party. Considering everything else going on in this country, I don't see why people are so surprised.

Etzell · 02-26-2011, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iggy

They took a page from the Nazi party. Considering everything else going on in this country, I don't see why people are so surprised.

Godwin.

As far as you go, Innoc, you're exactly right. Especially with the teachers in Wisconsin leaving their jobs to protest... Nothing says: "I do this job to help the kid" like not teaching them.
Now, I understand maybe the teachers have valid points, but now is not the time to pull shit like that. Do it over summer.

Innoc · 02-26-2011, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etzell

Godwin.

As far as you go, Innoc, you're exactly right. Especially with the teachers in Wisconsin leaving their jobs to protest... Nothing says: "I do this job to help the kid" like not teaching them.
Now, I understand maybe the teachers have valid points, but now is not the time to pull shit like that. Do it over summer.

My thought is that if they believe they have a view that's worth pursuing then stay engaged and continue the dialogue. In this case of the Wisconsin legislators I believe that the dialogue, discourse and debate is a significant part of what they were elected to carry out. If there's a procedural issue with how things get carried out that needs to be addressed then do it...but run away instead?

stray kitten · 03-02-2011, 03:38 PM

This is an example of why I continually fear an ever increasing power base of government reach and influence. It's inflexible and impossible to make rational changes. And perhaps another example of why I view SOME government workers as leeches. Especially in a severe economic downturn. If GM can't pay their creditors they go bankrupt, get taken over by the government and forced into severe overhaul. Wisconsin legislators and "national" socialist workers just bury their head in the sand. Do what the rest of us do, polish your fucktard resume and start thinking what if? Same with California. It's hard to force leeches into making that Obama sacrifice. In their minds they already have. In recent years I have began to consider Baby boomers, the "hope and change" fucktard generation. Everything is about their "benefit".

GenghisTron · 03-02-2011, 05:22 PM

This is just one of many tools used by politicians to go around the rules. I'm not sure what the issue is here, because this kind of questionable stuff happens all the time, by both parties, local, state, or federal.

stray kitten · 03-04-2011, 03:21 PM

The bottom line issue is GOVERNMENT workers paid with OUR (or in this case the people of Wisconsin) TAX dollars which are PUBLIC FUNDS OWNED BY THE PEOPLE - Have a "RIGHT" to collective bargaining. AKA Unionizing against the PEOPLE. Much like a factory worker paid by private funds at a GM plant. When did we get away from the idea that public workers and elected officicials are servants of the people? And when faced with a very hard decision the elected servant of the people ran like little crying babies.

And when did the legions of liberal democrats in this country start to consider this basic tenant of democracy UNION BUSTING? Especially the president who himself takes an oath. And resides over literally millions of people paid by our tax dollars who rightfully to NOT have the right to form a Union AGAINST the people.

Bridget · 03-05-2011, 02:52 AM

wat

BinaryLife · 03-09-2011, 02:43 PM

I thought the democrats left because they wanted to stall the decision until it made some kind of sense. I honestly don't think that warrants the "abuse of government" thought process. I think a lot of things need to change but with the government the way it is, BOTH sides are using cheap tactics to get their way.

Also the debates on this thread seem t assume that the teachers are ridiculous in their actions when in actuality 50,000 is not that much and they aren't all that wealthy. There are much more wealthy individuals who have bought out the government's decision not to tax them instead and frankly I think that's the bigger story. The teachers are just trying to protect their smaller piece of the pie. And doing it by protesting is certainly not as sleazy and backhanded as the alternative.

Innoc · 03-10-2011, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BinaryLife

I thought the democrats left because they wanted to stall the decision until it made some kind of sense. I honestly don't think that warrants the "abuse of government" thought process. I think a lot of things need to change but with the government the way it is, BOTH sides are using cheap tactics to get their way.

Also the debates on this thread seem t assume that the teachers are ridiculous in their actions when in actuality 50,000 is not that much and they aren't all that wealthy. There are much more wealthy individuals who have bought out the government's decision not to tax them instead and frankly I think that's the bigger story. The teachers are just trying to protect their smaller piece of the pie. And doing it by protesting is certainly not as sleazy and backhanded as the alternative.

Really? So completely these legislators were elected by the people to perform work related to the operation of the state. They disagree with the Governor so they simply stop working and leave the state? How is that not abuse? The state has established processes and procedures. As a legislator you do not have the right to pick and choose which ones you will and will not follow. If you don't like it....there are processes for which change can be effected. To simply stop working is abuse.

Unfortunately it seems that if the people of Wisconsin do not like it their sole recourse is recall.

**Crazycarl** · 03-10-2011, 01:40 AM

Politicians are meant to work? lol. They are elected to protect the interests of their constituents, and if the situation is dire enough, stalling tactics may be the way to do that. If it's just a stunt that accomplishes nothing, it shouldn't be done.

Iggy · 03-10-2011, 01:41 AM

100% agree with Innoc. Wait, that's twice this year we've agreed on something! The world is gonna come to an end! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

Innoc · 03-10-2011, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

Politicians are meant to work? lol. They are elected to protect the interests of their constituents, and if the situation is dire enough, stalling tactics may be the way to do that. If it's just a stunt that accomplishes nothing, it shouldn't be done.

Why should should the behavior of elected officials be different from those they serve? None of us would have a job if we behaved in this manner...nor should we.

Iggy, I'm glad we agree. Something to discuss over a beer or two.

**Crazycarl** · 03-10-2011, 03:15 AM

Because their job is completely different from anyone else's. If I hired someone to represent me, walking out on a meeting might be what serves my interests best.

Innoc · 03-10-2011, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazycarl

Because their job is completely different from anyone else's. If I hired someone to represent me, walking out on a meeting might be what serves my interests best.

On that you and I cannot agree. So long as our representatives behave as if they follow different rules than the common man or that they are not obligated to follow established procedures for the body in which they serve I do not believe that anything will ever improve.

Our Government is of the people, by the people and for the people. Avoiding doing your job is not what the people do.

Iggy · 03-10-2011, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innoc

Why should should the behavior of elected officials be different from those they serve? None of us would have a job if we behaved in this manner...nor should we.

Iggy, I'm glad we agree. Something to discuss over a beer or two.

Even if we don't agree, we can always discuss things over a beer or two.

Bridget · 03-10-2011, 11:24 AM

Representative government is dumb, anyway. Over time, the people put too much confidence in the politicians who represent them to the point where they become apathetic to their condition, and allow said representatives to fuck things up left and right. Representation should exist on the individual level, because if you have to take on that burden, you're going to make sure you go out of your way to have an interest in the condition of the world around you. If you get babysit, then not at all. It's like "free" health-care. Paying for health-care out of your own pocket will always provide you with a larger incentive to stay fit because it's at your cost, while having the burden shifted on the whole of society eases you up to live like a slob.

Iggy · 03-10-2011, 12:14 PM

Did you guys hear that the republicans pushed it through last night, while the dems were still on their out of state protest?

To play devil's advocate; it serves them right. Maybe now they'll go back to work, and try to fix the situation.

FrenchToast · 03-10-2011, 02:09 PM

Bridget, that's retarded.

Bridget · 03-10-2011, 09:10 PM

No, it's common sense.

02-25-2011, 11:33 PM	#1
Innoc Hitman 2 1 Actual Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: "Oscar Mike" Gametype: FPS or RTS (just say NO to MMO) Affiliations: Your Mom Posts Rated Helpful 8 Times	Elected Representatives crossing state lines as a stalling tactic I'm sure most of you have heard a little something about the situation in Wisconsin. I'm sure you all know this isn't the only technique used to stall movement in legislative bodies. However, I wonder how many of you believe that it's ok to simply leave your job to stall an action you don't like? Yeah, my bias is evident I'm sure. I am however curious if there's anyone here that believes that it's a legitimate action on the part of the objectors. Do you likewise believe that there should be no consequence for what it is they do by avoiding their duty. __________________ Mooga on Obama: He can cut taxes. Actually do something useful. Punch Nancy Pelosi in the face. Just to name a few. You eventually run out of other people's money to spend.

03-02-2011, 03:38 PM	#5
stray kitten mjau D&A Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Class/Position: kittens are sneaky, spy Gametype: Capture the mouse Posts Rated Helpful 2 Times	This is an example of why I continually fear an ever increasing power base of government reach and influence. It's inflexible and impossible to make rational changes. And perhaps another example of why I view SOME government workers as leeches. Especially in a severe economic downturn. If GM can't pay their creditors they go bankrupt, get taken over by the government and forced into severe overhaul. Wisconsin legislators and "national" socialist workers just bury their head in the sand. Do what the rest of us do, polish your fucktard resume and start thinking what if? Same with California. It's hard to force leeches into making that Obama sacrifice. In their minds they already have. In recent years I have began to consider Baby boomers, the "hope and change" fucktard generation. Everything is about their "benefit". __________________ 6 of the 10 richest counties in America now surround Washington D.C. Our "capitol" edged out Silicon Valley as the nation's richest metro area. Reality Distortion Field = 1. Stream the distractions: One percent, hoodies, and kony oh my.

03-02-2011, 05:22 PM	#6
GenghisTron AKA LittleAndroidMan D&A Member Beta Tester Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dystopia Class/Position: Demo/Medic Gametype: CTF Affiliations: [TALOS] [SR] Posts Rated Helpful 11 Times	This is just one of many tools used by politicians to go around the rules. I'm not sure what the issue is here, because this kind of questionable stuff happens all the time, by both parties, local, state, or federal. __________________ The Catacombs Steam Last.fm

03-04-2011, 03:21 PM	#7
stray kitten mjau D&A Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Class/Position: kittens are sneaky, spy Gametype: Capture the mouse Posts Rated Helpful 2 Times	RANT The bottom line issue is GOVERNMENT workers paid with OUR (or in this case the people of Wisconsin) TAX dollars which are PUBLIC FUNDS OWNED BY THE PEOPLE - Have a "RIGHT" to collective bargaining. AKA Unionizing against the PEOPLE. Much like a factory worker paid by private funds at a GM plant. When did we get away from the idea that public workers and elected officicials are servants of the people? And when faced with a very hard decision the elected servant of the people ran like little crying babies. And when did the legions of liberal democrats in this country start to consider this basic tenant of democracy UNION BUSTING? Especially the president who himself takes an oath. And resides over literally millions of people paid by our tax dollars who rightfully to NOT have the right to form a Union AGAINST the people. __________________ 6 of the 10 richest counties in America now surround Washington D.C. Our "capitol" edged out Silicon Valley as the nation's richest metro area. Reality Distortion Field = 1. Stream the distractions: One percent, hoodies, and kony oh my.

03-10-2011, 02:09 PM	#19
FrenchToast The 1337est D&A Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Omagosh Canada. Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	Bridget, that's retarded. __________________ James, while John had had 'had', had had 'had had' ; 'had had' had had a better effect on the teacher.

03-05-2011, 02:52 AM	#8
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	wat

03-09-2011, 02:43 PM	#9
BinaryLife Posts: 1 bajillion D&A Member Wiki Team Join Date: Mar 2007 Gametype: CTF Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	I thought the democrats left because they wanted to stall the decision until it made some kind of sense. I honestly don't think that warrants the "abuse of government" thought process. I think a lot of things need to change but with the government the way it is, BOTH sides are using cheap tactics to get their way. Also the debates on this thread seem t assume that the teachers are ridiculous in their actions when in actuality 50,000 is not that much and they aren't all that wealthy. There are much more wealthy individuals who have bought out the government's decision not to tax them instead and frankly I think that's the bigger story. The teachers are just trying to protect their smaller piece of the pie. And doing it by protesting is certainly not as sleazy and backhanded as the alternative.

03-10-2011, 01:40 AM	#11
Crazycarl D&A Member Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 31 Times	Politicians are meant to work? lol. They are elected to protect the interests of their constituents, and if the situation is dire enough, stalling tactics may be the way to do that. If it's just a stunt that accomplishes nothing, it shouldn't be done.

03-10-2011, 03:15 AM	#14
Crazycarl D&A Member Wiki Team Fortress Forever Staff Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts Rated Helpful 31 Times	Because their job is completely different from anyone else's. If I hired someone to represent me, walking out on a meeting might be what serves my interests best.

03-10-2011, 11:24 AM	#17
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	Representative government is dumb, anyway. Over time, the people put too much confidence in the politicians who represent them to the point where they become apathetic to their condition, and allow said representatives to fuck things up left and right. Representation should exist on the individual level, because if you have to take on that burden, you're going to make sure you go out of your way to have an interest in the condition of the world around you. If you get babysit, then not at all. It's like "free" health-care. Paying for health-care out of your own pocket will always provide you with a larger incentive to stay fit because it's at your cost, while having the burden shifted on the whole of society eases you up to live like a slob.

03-10-2011, 09:10 PM	#20
Bridget Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Class/Position: Soldier Gametype: AVD Affiliations: TALOS Posts Rated Helpful 5 Times	No, it's common sense.

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