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Old 03-27-2011, 06:44 AM   #21
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Fortress Forever can be dead, and still have players. Your opinion that the game's death was a result of inactive servers is a fucking joke. Why did those servers become inactive in the first place? It isn't like everyone had to go to work at the same time, and never came back around. Nope, the game got boring, and this time, instead of it being a handful of new players leaving the game, familiar members of the community packed up and got the fuck out.

You don't understand anything, Moya, despite trying so hard. You're a bottom-feeder. Once the game dies, all you faggots come out of the woodwork trying to act like quantum physicists with your stupid theories for why Fortress Forever died, when I have pretty much been Schiffin' you guys so fucking hard about the real reasons this game is now dead. Think outside the box, nerd.

Also, I enjoy the red-herring arguments a lot. "Well, if the game's dead, why do you still come around?" as if me coming around is somehow an indicator that the game is not dead. Wham! Fallacy alert. Get fucked. Nah, I come around to rub it in your faces. I'm still around swingin' in my hammock feastin' on grapes and strawberries from some bitches while you peasants frolic about in the fields.

Infract me again, Geo. You just showin' how mad you are.
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Old 03-27-2011, 09:35 AM   #22
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sorry geo, beat you to it.
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Old 03-27-2011, 12:52 PM   #23
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I still believe a FF blog would be helpful. the community is split into several little pieces (forum/pub servers/pickup), that's why a source of news has to be concentrated on one gathering point. a way to reach them all, no matter if they play once a week or 24/7. either this board (although some stuff on here could actually scare new peeps off) or a FF blog (kinda like the TF2 one). promote the blog on the servers and if possible set up a direct link from the FF game menu.
Sadly, a blog can only really exist with an active community and dev team creating content and events to showcase. As it stands, there's not a lot to write about.
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Old 03-27-2011, 01:26 PM   #24
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Getting opinions from Valve might not be a bad idea, just sayin'.
I'd expect more criticism from Valve then just a standard opinion. I doubt they'd want anything to do with Fortress Forever considering they have their hands full creating shitty hats for a bad Fortress game. And the development of HL3. We know it's going to happen!
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Old 03-27-2011, 01:36 PM   #25
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Fortress Forever can be dead, and still have players. Your opinion that the game's death was a result of inactive servers is a fucking joke. Why did those servers become inactive in the first place? It isn't like everyone had to go to work at the same time, and never came back around. Nope, the game got boring, and this time, instead of it being a handful of new players leaving the game, familiar members of the community packed up and got the fuck out.

You don't understand anything, Moya, despite trying so hard. You're a bottom-feeder. Once the game dies, all you faggots come out of the woodwork trying to act like quantum physicists with your stupid theories for why Fortress Forever died, when I have pretty much been Schiffin' you guys so fucking hard about the real reasons this game is now dead. Think outside the box, nerd.

Also, I enjoy the red-herring arguments a lot. "Well, if the game's dead, why do you still come around?" as if me coming around is somehow an indicator that the game is not dead. Wham! Fallacy alert. Get fucked. Nah, I come around to rub it in your faces. I'm still around swingin' in my hammock feastin' on grapes and strawberries from some bitches while you peasants frolic about in the fields.

Infract me again, Geo. You just showin' how mad you are.
I'm trying? The only thing I really care to know about is when you're going to finally shut up and move along. You're like a virus that annoys the community to no end. You're a jack in the box that just wont shut the fuck up even after we shut you in your cramped space of a box.

I'm the nerd, and you're the one who wrote the novel on a 'dead game.' The definition of a dead game is one that simply doesn't exist anymore. Some people have more patience then others, and possibly all the time in the world to wait on something as a simple patch. Because people like that stand for more then just the game. It's a community, and one I apparently enjoy and will enjoy to the very end. So do everyone here favor, and find another game to bash on with your negative idealistic views. Quit being a voice in general. It's in the back of our heads now.

Oh, and one last thing. I never believed this game was dead. I still don't so as long as people keep playing it. Apparently my opinion has outlasted your stay here. So say what you want, and try to make all the points you want. There's no effect here, so blurt out whatever nonsense you believe. It's just one more thing for me to laugh at.

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Old 03-27-2011, 01:44 PM   #26
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Honestly, people have fun all the time playing in O-T so then there must be something that they are doing right, to keep this game going. People still have a great time playing the game. I know that in that server you'll find maybe 4 members of O-T playing about the same time, and more come around to play with or replace other members. But still 4 members. Thats out of 20+ players every day in JUST that server.
Well, that could be interpreted as the "incomplete devastation" logical fallacy. I see this all the time in the mod Zombie Panic. Some people will brag about how they'll be the last person to die, whereas if they had cooperated more, everyone might have lived. The same goes for FF. Just because a few people still play the game and enjoy it, it doesn't mean that there couldn't have been MANY more players if the mod had been handled differently.

In theory, FF should have been able to court every TFC or TF fan that wasn't as fond of TF2. TFC was pretty huge in its time. There were hundreds of servers with most of them populated. To have a peak of 20-30 people in a day seems like a disaster for a mod using an established and popular IP / mechanics to piggyback off of. For various reasons (take your pick), the fact is a lot of people got alienated from the mod and I think a lot of it could have been prevented. 20 users in one server may sound good, but compared to several hundred like some established mods have and FF did at one point, it's not.

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Old 03-27-2011, 03:39 PM   #27
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Well, that could be interpreted as the "incomplete devastation" logical fallacy. I see this all the time in the mod Zombie Panic. Some people will brag about how they'll be the last person to die, whereas if they had cooperated more, everyone might have lived. The same goes for FF. Just because a few people still play the game and enjoy it, it doesn't mean that there couldn't have been MANY more players if the mod had been handled differently.

In theory, FF should have been able to court every TFC or TF fan that wasn't as fond of TF2. TFC was pretty huge in its time. There were hundreds of servers with most of them populated. To have a peak of 20-30 people in a day seems like a disaster for a mod using an established and popular IP / mechanics to piggyback off of. For various reasons (take your pick), the fact is a lot of people got alienated from the mod and I think a lot of it could have been prevented. 20 users in one server may sound good, but compared to several hundred like some established mods have and FF did at one point, it's not.
I'm sure everyone has their own reasons for leaving, but that doesn't mean they are gone for good. I've seen so many people come in and out. That might be as good as it gets, but I'll take it.

As far as TF2 goes. That's 700 people who were never apart of the original fortress experience. And honestly, out of 700 people, I'd rather play with the same 20 all the time.
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Old 03-27-2011, 08:15 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by eomoyaff View Post
As far as TF2 goes. That's 700 people who were never apart of the original fortress experience. And honestly, out of 700 people, I'd rather play with the same 20 all the time.
\

That opinion is why the mod is where it is
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Old 03-27-2011, 08:55 PM   #29
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As far as TF2 goes. That's 700 people who were never apart of the original fortress experience. And honestly, out of 700 people, I'd rather play with the same 20 all the time.
I was thinking more of the people who were/are big fans of TFC or other TF games, but got turned off from FF for various reasons. I think reaching out and finding out what the existing TF communities wanted to see in FF would have been a good idea.

As for preferring to play with the same 20 people out of potentially hundreds, well, I guess that's a difference of preference between us.
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:24 AM   #30
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I'm fully aware of the fact the community ain't bigger than 30-40 peeps. I was hoping to get a wee boost when 2.42 finally comes out. 20 extra players, a bit of word-to-mouth advertising may create a chain reaction if 2.42 is better than the current version.

Also I know this will never be nearly as big as TFC, it's too late for that now.

I might be a hopeless romantic for trying, but trying doesn't cost a thing.

I was suggesting to contact Robin Walker, John Cook and Ian Caughley (for those who ain't familiar with these names, they made Team Fortress Classic). of course there is no guarantee that they even bother replying to an email. however they might remember their roots, where they came from. also a sequel based on their own work is something I personally would like to see if I were in their shoes.


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I was thinking more of the people who were/are big fans of TFC or other TF games, but got turned off from FF for various reasons. I think reaching out and finding out what the existing TF communities wanted to see in FF would have been a good idea.
This might sound like another stupid idea coming from me (you guys must think I'm a bloody weirdo), but what about an online survey? asking the TFC community, ex-tfc players etc why they don't play FF, what they didn't like about it and so on.

For my part I would be curious to see the results. even if it doesn't help.. may be I could find some peace at least.
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:50 AM   #31
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I'm fully aware of the fact the community ain't bigger than 30-40 peeps. I was hoping to get a wee boost when 2.42 finally comes out. 20 extra players, a bit of word-to-mouth advertising may create a chain reaction if 2.42 is better than the current version.

Also I know this will never be nearly as big as TFC, it's too late for that now.

I might be a hopeless romantic for trying, but trying doesn't cost a thing.

I was suggesting to contact Robin Walker, John Cook and Ian Caughley (for those who ain't familiar with these names, they made Team Fortress Classic). of course there is no guarantee that they even bother replying to an email. however they might remember their roots, where they came from. also a sequel based on their own work is something I personally would like to see if I were in their shoes.




This might sound like another stupid idea coming from me (you guys must think I'm a bloody weirdo), but what about an online survey? asking the TFC community, ex-tfc players etc why they don't play FF, what they didn't like about it and so on.

For my part I would be curious to see the results. even if it doesn't help.. may be I could find some peace at least.

I don't think you would get them to respond, however I would be interested in learning why they don't. Since all we have now is speculation.
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Old 03-28-2011, 08:22 PM   #32
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\

That opinion is why the mod is where it is
Eh ya, sorry dude. Allow me to elaborate a bit o-O!

What I'm saying is that TF2 is made up of a lot of communities. Once players find the server(s) they like, they tend to stick with them.

With that said, if FF had some 700 players, made up of a bunch of communities, I would most likely stick with O-T and perhaps another server that had people I knew well playing in it + the pickup scenario.

That's what I meant when I said sticking with the same 20 players. It was more of an under-exaggeration. Sorry again o:!
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Old 03-28-2011, 08:34 PM   #33
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I don't think you would get them to respond, however I would be interested in learning why they don't. Since all we have now is speculation.
You'd be surprised who does respond to emails. I was having problems with Railo(A CFML Engine) and one the main guys emailed me back answering my question.

Another Example - My Friend was working with red5 - a flash media server open-source and the website went down, he twitted it went down and the owner twitted back saying, give me 5 seconds, rebooting the server!

So, not emailing them is bad. They most likely know FF is here, I bet they lurk a bit.
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Old 03-28-2011, 09:28 PM   #34
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when I used to see them playing hour-long pickups.
past == present?

Also, are you seriously arguing about the definition of a "dead game"?
Insulting people means you win I guess.

You try to act smart and logical, but its just not there.

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Old 03-28-2011, 10:13 PM   #35
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You can leave that alone, Pixel.... Bridget won't be replying for a while(if ever).

Anyhow, back on topic:

I really don't see what it would hurt to send out an e-mail to TFC players, and even TF2 players, to see first, if they've tried FF; when/what version they last played it; what did they like/not like about it; and what suggestions they might have for improving the game.

At worst, we've wasted a few hours writing up the e-mail/message, and tracking down the people who need asking. At best, it could bring new people in, or bring people back for another try.

Personally, I'm very active on Facebook, Twitter, Drippy's 2fort forums, and Atari-Age.com. I don't see any reason to not take a few moments to post something asking a few questions. To that end, let's start a list of questions that we should post in such a questionaire.

1) Have you ever tried Fortress Forever?
2) Do you remember the last version or roughly when you last played it?
3) Being as specific as possible; what did you like and/or not like about the game?
4) Relating back to Question 3, what would you change about the game to make it more appealing to you?
5) Even if some of those changes were not made, would you be willing to give Fortress Forever another try?

If anyone can think of anything else, please, chime in. (That means be productive, or be quiet.)
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:41 PM   #36
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You can leave that alone, Pixel.... Bridget won't be replying for a while(if ever).

Anyhow, back on topic:

I really don't see what it would hurt to send out an e-mail to TFC players, and even TF2 players, to see first, if they've tried FF; when/what version they last played it; what did they like/not like about it; and what suggestions they might have for improving the game.

At worst, we've wasted a few hours writing up the e-mail/message, and tracking down the people who need asking. At best, it could bring new people in, or bring people back for another try.

Personally, I'm very active on Facebook, Twitter, Drippy's 2fort forums, and Atari-Age.com. I don't see any reason to not take a few moments to post something asking a few questions. To that end, let's start a list of questions that we should post in such a questionaire.

1) Have you ever tried Fortress Forever?
2) Do you remember the last version or roughly when you last played it?
3) Being as specific as possible; what did you like and/or not like about the game?
4) Relating back to Question 3, what would you change about the game to make it more appealing to you?
5) Even if some of those changes were not made, would you be willing to give Fortress Forever another try?

If anyone can think of anything else, please, chime in. (That means be productive, or be quiet.)
That's what I'm talking about mate. I have done plenty of online surveys in the past few weeks for projects, websites etc. they only take 3 mins of your life.

they are easy to create and I would assume also easy to evaluate.

I like what you have done so far Iggy.

I would add:

1.1 Are you still playing FF?

If yes ->

What do you like/dislike about the game?
What would you change to make it better?
Are you overall satisfied with FF?


If not ->

2) Do you remember the last version or roughly when you last played it?
3) Being as specific as possible; what did you like and/or not like about the game?
4) Relating back to Question 3, what would you change about the game to make it more appealing to you?
5) Even if some of those changes were not made, would you be willing to give Fortress Forever another try?
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:47 PM   #37
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i have been to tfc #'s in irc and asked thoes very questions.. most frequent response is FF sucks. Reason being they only played FF when it sucked, most are unaware of the patches that made FF feel almost the same as TFC does now..

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Old 03-29-2011, 01:05 AM   #38
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most are unaware of the patches that made FF feel almost the same as TFC does now..
FF is almost nothing like TFC...it feels almost as big as the gap between TFC and TF2 to new players, just in the different direction.

Really fast and easy movement with almost no downsides, defense that is weaker as a whole with the only saving grace being increased mobility, new features which are either ill-received or break gameplay...

Once you get used to FF it's not terrible, but if you're expecting something somewhat true to TFC you're in for a surprise.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:13 AM   #39
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most are unaware of the patches that made FF feel almost the same as TFC does now..
Besides more maps, what about the patches made it feel MORE like TFC?
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Old 03-29-2011, 03:24 PM   #40
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i have been to tfc #'s in irc and asked thoes very questions.. most frequent response is FF sucks. Reason being they only played FF when it sucked, most are unaware of the patches that made FF feel almost the same as TFC does now..
That's the biggest problem imo. Everyone has made up their opinion based on FF 1.0 or so.

We need them to give the game another shot. some might do it out of curiosity. some others probably need an extra motivation; what about a little event like a 8v8 pickup between FF All Stars and TFC All Stars? Or anything similar.
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