Let's complain about the IGN hands-on article!

Up until IGN's hands-on article with more details on TF2's gameplay, I was even willing to defend Valve's removal of grenades. But some things in the article... are just disgusting to me

http://pc.ign.com/articles/780/780666p1.html

Take for example the newly released details on how the medic's invincibility works:

A special invulnerable attack can be triggered once the gauge fills, which renders both the target and Medic impervious to enemy attacks.

Now see I thought, as a sane human being, that only the target would be invulnerable, and that killing the med would stop it. But nope! You just have to heal some to fill your gage, then you get the invincibility that you can just turn on and then bugger off. Imagine the delight on D engies' faces as two invincible HWs and a demo stroll in, with no way to stop the ensuing AC and nade spam for 10+ seconds. Maybe Charlie Brown wets his pants at the idea, but I die a little inside

Then there's

As long as you keep the fire button depressed, the beam will stick on whoever's targeted, and even bend around corners.

So medics can heal around corners continuously and at a distance until their gage fills up, at which point they can turn on invincibility, presumably also around corners and at a distance.

The scout was also described as a combat class, with a baseball bat that stuns.

Pyros are now impotent at medium-long range. ("Because of their limited range, it is a supremely bad idea to rush across open spaces with a solitary Pyro." Better like being in your base!)

Spies can lay bombs on SGs that destroy them with one charge. This means engies "may not have the most exciting job on the field as they baby-sit their mechanical creations". I seem to recall in TFC the engie wasn't glued to his gun if he didn't want to be.

Anyway, before this turns into a novel of ranting, I'd just like to say THANK YOU to the FF team. Though some of the stuff in FF makes my eye twitch (sniper tagging and SG sabotaging), it's nowhere near as world-destroyingly bad as some of the ideas the TF2 team has come up with. FF seems to be at its core a faithful TF game. I don't even know wtf Valve is doing now... they even got rid of CTF except for one map (2fort).

You guys should see some of the heated debates going on at the TF2 forums about something as elementary as grenades. It's not even about "it's not a TFC port" any more, but "who the hell thought that could even be a good idea".

What do you all think about the stuff in the article?

[AmazingNurseEnrique]

Invincibility is the most scary new concept to me. The problem is balancing something like that is binary -- it's either near useless or overpowered. I think this will be the area they will have the hardest time making balanced.

The pyro's new role I'm OK with. Him needing sniper support to move across the bridge on 2fort, for example, is probably OK. It just requires some teamwork to get him into his preferred situation on offense.

The scout as a fast attack is a needed change if they're deciding to go with capture points. Raw speed is pointless if he gets there and can't attack or defend, so they have to give him some killing power to compensate. The new scout's role sounds like the old medic's -- average attack (his weapon is still just the normal shotty) and great speed, with low HP and armor..just faster and easier to kill than the current med. He'd be hard to kill with say solly or demo who use projectile weapons, but easy to kill with hitscan weapons from HW or Sniper.

The spy thing is a very minor change, as they can already do that with frags in TFC. Without frags, they needed to give the spy an anti-sg tool.

So in a nutshell, I'm interested in the other class changes, the medic just scares me. In theory, invunerability as a design is usually less fun and interesting, even if it proves to be perfectly balanced. Hopefully, if they're sticking with that, they find a way to make it cool.

[paranoidkirb]

I'm more worried about a 2 medic offense. They just heal each other until they get invincibility and heal each other some more when its over.

[fastbilly1]

Yea lets take away the conc and leave in teleporters...Ill play it because its Team Fortress, but it wont be installed for long. Fortress Forever please dont let me down now.

[Serik]

TF2 sounds like it'll be the multiplayer game of the year (some of you will beg to differ, but you can always play TFC until forever).

The only problem I have is IGN's shitty writing and reporting.

I'm curious as to how the invincibility thing will work out. I think most players will find it frustrating; they'll have to fight against invincible heavies and medics but will rarely become invincible themselves (unwilling to work with a medic, lack of skill). As such, they'll have a one-sided view of the capability.

Does the medic's "invincibility meter" reset once the medic is killed? Let's hope so.

Part of me wishes the pyro still had the flame cannon, but I'm happy the class will at last be useful.

The scout buff sounds like it fits well with the new map styles.

As a frequent Dustbowl player, I won't be missing grenades. Defenders will have to rely on more than nade spam to hold back blue at the gates. And blue will need to employ more tactics than run+nade spam red's position. It also eliminates the nade jumping spy - thank god

[groovyf]

I too was wondering about the medic's ability. Could it be like a demoman's detpack. One use per life? So once a medic has used his up, there's no more invuln available to dish out again until he respawns?

[Agret]

Don't forget quake wars comes out this year, with its focus on completing objectives it could take the title.

The invincibility thing bugs me too.

[Ihmhi]

Originally Posted by fastbilly1

Yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep yep

Sorry... I could not resist. >_<

Well it is obviously going to be a completely different flavor of TFC, like the difference between Coca Cola and... sewer water? Iunno.

I really, really, really hope the medic invincibility is only once per spawn, otherwise it will be a problem. S=

[ekiM]

Invulnerability is non-interactive. It wasn't fun in Quake II, it isn't fun now.

[Suite307]

Probably has a stupid amount of gauge or doesn't last more than 5 seconds.

[mervaka]

invulnerability must be as fun to play against as onos' digestion was in NS.....

[fastbilly1]

Ihmhi - its cool, I get that alot.

Serik I may just do that, keep playing TFC. Ive got almost three gigs of maps from the eight plus years Ive been playing.

My main problem is that apparently they have gotten rid of the conc. Scout has always been my favorite class, followed by pyro, and having one of his tools taken away is dreadful. Being that I took the time to learn to triple conc jump on several maps, though it was long ago and I can barely double conc now, it was one of the main reasons I played TFC daily for several years. So yeah its only a minor thing and yes series need to change to stay fresh and gather new people, playing the same game with different maps does get old. But why our baby the conc? Thats like making Half Life 3 and not giving Gordon the crowbar...Well to us scouts atleast.

[paranoidkirb]

Originally Posted by mervaka

invulnerability must be as fun to play against as onos' digestion was in NS.....

Yeah, well, to even get to an Onos took a lot of time. And at that point in the game, most marines are heavy or jetpacking.

It explains how invincibility works in the article: you just heal your team and it fills up your gage; once it's full, you're golden for 10 seconds o' invincibility, which is quite a lot if you as a fatty are taking constant damage letting your medic(s) charge up then, when you're in the heart of the base, get invincibility turned on.

I personally don't trust the teamwork element Valve is trying to push people to use. Teamwork on D to be everywhere at once to prevent invincible HWs and soldiers from getting in your base: rare, but possible. Teamwork on O to take down SGs without grenades all while fighting off invincible D HWs? Yeah right

[mistermojo]

Originally Posted by mervaka

invulnerability must be as fun to play against as onos' digestion was in NS.....

that was totally your fault though, shouldnt have been without your team!

[BobTheChainsaw]

Lets complain about games we've never played! Oh goodee!

[Defrag]

What bob said. I think it sounds like fun.

[Suite307]

Originally Posted by Defrag

What bob said. I think it sounds like fun.

But...but... what about being trendy ?

[Loader]

TF2 is professionally made, unlike FF.

I don't mean that in a bad way, I mean that TF2 is made by people who make these types of games for a living.

[Formaldehyde]

So? At any given moment 90% of the games on the market suck, and all of them are made by professionals.