A big thanks for Fortress Forever

I'd like to congratulate the FF team on a very polished and playable game.

I've been following FF over the years (way back when there was only a few images on the 'media' section of this site).

Right from the start, the Devs have kept true to the TF formula, with Source graphic goodness thrown in. The models and their animations are great and the maps have benefited from the extra graphic boost the Source engine gives. I also like how the maps have ported the essentials from their original TF/TFC counterparts. Innovations (like the cloaked spy) have been done well and the balance of each class has been just about been nailed already.

I'm a TFC veteran who has played it since the first day it was released - (on Wireplay in the UK when you had to actually subscribe to their service to use their servers). In my opinion, FF is a damn good mod and is the obvious upgrade for TFC'ers - I, for one will be playing it for as long as there are servers out there.

There are a few minor issues with FF that should be fixed soon, these are mentioned in a number of other threads. TFC evolved over years as subsequent HL patches were released. FF will also need time to fine-tune its gameplay, so a bit of patience is needed for this to happen.

I have tried to get into TF2 for about a week now and its absolutely useless. This game might appeal to a 10 year old, but its gonna bomb big-time with older players and anyone who has played TFC for a while.

I remember the 'leaked' TF2 screen images from years ago - all military style figures and a lot of hype about the game play, the 'Commander Mode', in-game comms and a stack of other innovations. To be honest, Battlefield 2 has all those elements (and you can fly around huge maps in a jet if you want). TF2 is in reality just a watered down TFC with stupid looking graphics and mind-numbingly boring gameplay - not the much anticipated game we were all hoping for.

I'm no conspiracy theorist, but the way Valve have pushed the pre-order thing for the Orange Box package - and allowed players early access to TF2 - was probably accellerated by the release of FF.

All FF needs to do to blow TF2 away is to get itself noticed by the gamers out there. It looks like its already been noticed by Valve, and I don't think they are too happy about the high quality of this excellent mod.

If I worked on the production of TF2 I would be too embarassed to admit it to anyone.

[SkullBash]

Perhaps they should have called TF2 something else. It's a new game. With old roots.

Here is a prop for FF. You guys did a smashing job. I love playing, and I think T H A T is what is important. Someone who loves to play your game/mod/entity.

Thank you VERY much.

forever live fortress forever!

[Peon]

Myself, along with others have come up with a few alternate TF2 names.
Mine was: "Comical Team Flag Combat".....mostly cause the Fortress aspect is gone.
Sacrifist suggested: "Team Capture Point."
Dr. Uudge suggested my favorite: ""The mulitplayer FPS game that encourage teamplay by stripping movement enhancements and amplifying the weakpoints of each class, that really has little to do with previous style of team fortress type of matches." And no "2" following it.

Additionally in this thread, I find yet another dude who thinks that TF2 was dumbed down for "hardcore" console tards. (BTW, that means if you like the console more than a PC, and consider (and refer to) yourself as hardcore....then you're a tard). I have grown quite fond of referring to what happened to TF2 as being Xboxed. Just look for my previous posts if you want see the heated discussion.

Seeing as we are all well aware that PC games are developed for consoles simultaneously now, we know that there is great temptation to cater to the console version. It used to be that only in really rare circumstances would a game be released for all consoles and the PC simultaneously. I believe that the first Mortal Kombats did.....and maybe some driving, sports, or flying games.

Usually it would be a game that was very good for the PC that got simplified and reworked for the consoles. The list of examples is just too friggin' huge to get into. RTSes translate fairly good for console controllers, and now launch simultaneously. Of course, that doesn't mean that all of the platforms will be able to play against one another......no.....that ONLY means that they tried not to make the game too complicated (a word which contains and extends the root form "compute," which is also extended to computer) to be played on a console. Boy am I glad they do that.

HOWEVER, one thing you NEVER saw that happen to was First-Person Shooters. It was always PC first....and we'll think about the console later. It's no big goddamn secret why this was, other than the computer geeks who made them really liked to. The other big obvious reason was that hardly anyone who owned a console would BUY an FPS, because they SUCKED and you'd have to be a broke geek to enjoy them. They didn't sell as well on the consoles......and that's half the reason why ANYTHING get's done in this world.

Then Goldeneye came out, became the best selling video game in the world for 2 years, and all that noise changed. Now the consoles were ripe for the taking, and console FPS translations became rampant.....not that I was complaining.....I loved renting them....but I only wanted to own Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, and Turok 2.

But one thing that I never did was pretend that a console FPS was better than a PC one. I always bowed and said "I'm not worthy!" in front of the FPS Gods: Doom, Duke3D, Quake, Unreal, and now Half-Life. A good gaming PC was just never affordable enough for me...until I learned how to build my own. Now it just seems dumb to even consider playing an FPS on a console.

The best console shooter yet is Metroid Prime 3 for Wii, only because of the controller....and even then it felt dumbed down and limited with just about 0.01% customizability. The motion control aspect definitly makes a strong argument vs PC interface, and it was certainly responsive enough. With that in mind, I can tell you that one thing that you will never see, is Nintendo translating any of it's games to the PC....cause they don't give a fuck and consider that stupid even if it's profitable......they make console video games and that's it. They like their controllers highly functional, but simple.

Of course, all of the good console FPSes appeared later as Half-Life 1&2 MODS. I currently love the Goldeneye: Source MOD, and consider it great as that. I mean the only way I'd ever seen anybody play a console shooter on the PC was if it was a MOD.....that's the only incarnation a console FPS should ever show up on a PC as. A PC game MOD is supposed to feel shallow and low budget.....then TF/C, CS, DC, FF, and many others changed all that....but it was definitley a change for the good. A MOD is a hobby for game makers, and now an audition to work as a game maker.

Ever since the beginning of video games, you never saw someone boneheaded enough to publish a console FPS on the PC........and then Halo changed all that. I'm not even going to waste my time dicussing it.....it makes my head hurt. I already feel like apologizing for writing a book here as it is.

Oh....and yes I agree....FF is awesome.

[groovyf]

Hmm, Eric the Pixie.. that name rings a bell

[SCOT]?

Jeeze! how you doin m8 - yeah its me [SCOT]Eric the Pixie.

Its nice to hear yet another voice from the past, I've been pleasantly surprised so see so many old timers still active.

I reckon an in-depth exploration of these here forums will uncover a stack more!

We are still alive and kicking as a clan, but its more of an on-line social club now - we haven't played a TFC clan match for an awful long time. I was the teams' engie back then, but after all this time, the only support class I can play is 'Zimmer', lol.

We moth-balled any updates to the clan site sometime in 2004, but its still up. If anyone needs a copy of an old TFC map, we have 105 of them available for download and there are the usual guides to map tic-tacks and classes up there too. Don't bother with the forums, they are totaly ignored these days.

http://www.clan-scot.com

Who knows, there might be something useful for new players.

Anyhoo, nice to hear from you m8, I'll be popping in here a bit more (now that I'm starting to get the TFC/FF bug again) - in fact, you will probably end up killing me on a server some time

[groovyf]

Cool beans.

Wireplay have a good few FF servers up and running. Come join us

Just recently started playing this game and i have to say i like it alot, graphics are nice with the source engine and even with 20 people in a server im keeping 80+ FPS, I like the more realisticness to this game over TF2 which i have not played or bought the orange box yet, any recommendations for it? idk if i wana buy it now lol

just my 0.02

[Private_Joker]

Somebody in a server I was playing made a good point yesterday; while FF kept the Fortress style, TF2 became alot more like DoD just by accident. It makes sense, TF2 is just DoD:S with more speed and wierd graphics. And no nades.

-Joker

[Rutabeggar]

Hehe, that's funny because even DoD had nades...GG Valve.

Originally Posted by Eric the Pixie

I have tried to get into TF2 for about a week now and its absolutely useless. This game might appeal to a 10 year old, but its gonna bomb big-time with older players and anyone who has played TFC for a while.

You need to get out of your e-cave more, apparently. You, and 1 out of every 2 posters on these forums, such as Peon up there above me.

The verdict's already in on TF2, and in virtually every community except this (very small) one, the game is receiving praise heaped upon more praise.

http://www.metacritic.com/games/plat...20fortress%202

TF2's also receiving more attention than FF from competitive gamers, ironically. For example, GotFrag.com's already got a TF2 page and forum.

http://www.gotfrag.com/tf2/home/
http://www.gotfrag.com/tf2/forums/170/

Don't see one of either for FF, though.

As you can see, TF2's already got an ESL division, and a CEVO division appears to be imminent. I assume most of you here are aware of how high-profile those two leagues are. And then there's the TGL event that was just announced today, of course (http://www.gotfrag.com/tf2/story/40308/).

Clearly, the game isn't only appealing to 10-year-olds, and it isn't bombing with older players, fellas.


Fortress Forever is a fantastic amateur-made mod. Valve even publicly praised it, and they don't just do that for anyone.

That said, from browsing these forums these last few weeks, I have to say that the childish, outright denial-of-reality I see from the patrons here in regard to TF2 is pretty pathetic.

Face it guys, TF2 is a good game. Great, even.

And the hard truth is that FF was very unlucky to have it come out at the same time.

[bokko]

Originally Posted by serotonin

Face it guys, TF2 is a good game. Great, even.

Everyone is allowed their own opinion. What some consider great is awful to others and you know it.

[Credge]

Originally Posted by serotonin

Face it guys, TF2 is a good game. Great, even.

Yes, it's got amazing graphics. However, it's not the kind of game I want to play. Non-instant spawning, CS-like gameplay, lack of speed building skill, along with a long list of reasons that make the game, in my eyes, seem terrible.

It's much like Halo and WoW. I can go and play it at any time I want. I can look at a server list and see 10,000 people playing at any time, but none of that makes it a good game.

A successful game/=/a good game.

Originally Posted by bokko

Everyone is allowed their own opinion. What some consider great is awful to others and you know it.

Well, of course.

However, a person who doesn't have their head up their ass is also aware when their own opinion belongs to a tiny minority, and moderates himself accordingly.

For example, I hate Stephen King. I think he's a hack, hugely overrated, and incredibly self-absorbed in his writing (it's comical how often he writes himself into his stories, and how he actually has the gall to compare himself favorably to Hemingway).

That said, being someone who doesn't have his head up his ass, I am nonetheless aware that Stephen King's admirers, far, FAR outnumber his detractors, and I have to be respectful of that fact, like it or not (and believe me, I do not). Clearly, if I'm being rational, I have no choice but to intellectually concede that my own opinion concerning his quality as an author is very much on the fringe.


Now take that example, make Stephen King = TF2, apply it to yourself, and you'll see my point.

Originally Posted by Credge

A successful game/=/a good game.

No, actually, it does.

Yes, I know this is a vexing thing to have to admit to oneself... But it's true, mang.

People don't play games that they think are bad. Agreed?

Thus, if a game has a huge number of players, a huge number of players must think the game is good.

And, dude, it's not like their opinions just don't count in comparison to your own, or something.


(I also hate Halo and WoW, btw, lol)

[bokko]

I enjoy the works of Stephen King but I don't try to force my opinion on anyone.

I think he's a great writer but people will disagree with me and I accept that.

[Edit: Also Psycnet's post below makes an excellent point. hahahha]

[PsYcNeT]

Following similar logic, I could surmise that

Nickleback = Good music

...

I just threw up a little in my mouth

[Dospac]

It's been great just being able to clan in something that isn't so stale and has new experiences... The TDA legacy has translated well I think.. =D

[SoBe Green]

The point is you aren't helpful to any community with a mindset like you have. I'm a member of a Counter-Strike community and I've played TFC since its release ZOMG!!!1111

TF2 is a great game. If you don't like it quit talking about it. Quit blaming it for the downfalls of FF. FF is also a great game.

Some of you forum members make me not even want to play this game for fear of having anything to do with you at all. You have horrible attitude and your parents should have beat the hell out of you.

I've waited on this game for a very long time and feel I shouldn't have to put up with people like bokko and others who just want to start shit on a message board because enjoy GAMES and not just one game.

[greenday5494]

Originally Posted by Peon

Myself, along with others have come up with a few alternate TF2 names.
Mine was: "Comical Team Flag Combat".....mostly cause the Fortress aspect is gone.
Sacrifist suggested: "Team Capture Point."
Dr. Uudge suggested my favorite: ""The mulitplayer FPS game that encourage teamplay by stripping movement enhancements and amplifying the weakpoints of each class, that really has little to do with previous style of team fortress type of matches." And no "2" following it.

Additionally in this thread, I find yet another dude who thinks that TF2 was dumbed down for "hardcore" console tards. (BTW, that means if you like the console more than a PC, and consider (and refer to) yourself as hardcore....then you're a tard). I have grown quite fond of referring to what happened to TF2 as being Xboxed. Just look for my previous posts if you want see the heated discussion.

Seeing as we are all well aware that PC games are developed for consoles simultaneously now, we know that there is great temptation to cater to the console version. It used to be that only in really rare circumstances would a game be released for all consoles and the PC simultaneously. I believe that the first Mortal Kombats did.....and maybe some driving, sports, or flying games.

Usually it would be a game that was very good for the PC that got simplified and reworked for the consoles. The list of examples is just too friggin' huge to get into. RTSes translate fairly good for console controllers, and now launch simultaneously. Of course, that doesn't mean that all of the platforms will be able to play against one another......no.....that ONLY means that they tried not to make the game too complicated (a word which contains and extends the root form "compute," which is also extended to computer) to be played on a console. Boy am I glad they do that.

HOWEVER, one thing you NEVER saw that happen to was First-Person Shooters. It was always PC first....and we'll think about the console later. It's no big goddamn secret why this was, other than the computer geeks who made them really liked to. The other big obvious reason was that hardly anyone who owned a console would BUY an FPS, because they SUCKED and you'd have to be a broke geek to enjoy them. They didn't sell as well on the consoles......and that's half the reason why ANYTHING get's done in this world.

Then Goldeneye came out, became the best selling video game in the world for 2 years, and all that noise changed. Now the consoles were ripe for the taking, and console FPS translations became rampant.....not that I was complaining.....I loved renting them....but I only wanted to own Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, and Turok 2.

But one thing that I never did was pretend that a console FPS was better than a PC one. I always bowed and said "I'm not worthy!" in front of the FPS Gods: Doom, Duke3D, Quake, and now Half-Life. A good gaming PC was just never affordable enough for me...until I learned how to build my own. Now it just seems dumb to even consider playing an FPS on a console.

The best console shooter yet is Metroid Prime 3 for Wii, only because of the controller....and even then it felt dumbed down and limited with just about 0.01% customizability. The motion control aspect definitly makes a strong argument vs PC interface, and it was certainly responsive enough. With that in mind, I can tell you that one thing that you will never see, is Nintendo translating any of it's games to the PC....cause they don't give a fuck and consider that stupid even if it's profitable......they make console video games and that's it. They like their controllers highly functional, but simple.

Of course, all of the good console FPSes appeared later as Half-Life 1&2 MODS. I currently love the Goldeneye: Source MOD, and consider it great as that. I mean the only way I'd ever seen anybody play a console shooter on the PC was if it was a MOD.....that's the only incarnation a console FPS should ever show up on a PC as. A PC game MOD is supposed to feel shallow and low budget.....then TF/C, CS, DC, FF, and many others changed all that....but it was definitley a change for the good. A MOD is a hobby for game makers, and now an audition to work as a game maker.

Ever since the beginning of video games, you never saw someone boneheaded enough to publish a console FPS on the PC........and then Halo changed all that. I'm not even going to waste my time dicussing it.....it makes my head hurt. I already feel like apologizing for writing a book here as it is.

Oh....and yes I agree....FF is awesome.

wtf? why do all pc gamers think they are more "1337" than console gamers, and that console gamers, AS YOU PUT IT, are tards. why? i play both PC and console, i dont think im a "tard". granted, i do know a hell of a lot more about programming/computers than most other 13 year olds, but w/e.

[greenday5494]

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

The point is you aren't helpful to any community with a mindset like you have. I'm a member of a Counter-Strike community and I've played TFC since its release ZOMG!!!1111

TF2 is a great game. If you don't like it quit talking about it. Quit blaming it for the downfalls of FF. FF is also a great game.

Some of you forum members make me not even want to play this game for fear of having anything to do with you at all. You have horrible attitude and your parents should have beat the hell out of you.

I've waited on this game for a very long time and feel I shouldn't have to put up with people like bokko and others who just want to start shit on a message board because enjoy GAMES and not just one game.

i have to agree. they should have called TF2 something else (something non-sarcastic, but im being serious here) i play GAMES for FUN. not for elistist w/e winning shit. FUN and GAMES go hand in hand, k?
i agree with some of sobe's post. aside from the "parents should have beaten you to death" usual forum banter, he does make sense. TF2 is a good game. what if people all started bashing your work, work that you spent countless hours on? especcially with all the new tech in it, it must have tooken forever. yes, it is dumbed a bit, but it is still FUN.