Top 3 reasons why TF2 failed competitvely

[Majesty]

Why would I talk about TF2 if I didn't want any focus on it? The entire thread is about why it failed competitively. That's all I've been talking about the entire time, which makes a good topic as to what to avoid when developing for a competitive game. You think? Let me guess, no. I'm doing something wrong, right?

What exactly do you consider substance? seemed to leave that part out of your post. You've done nothing but complain about the Dev team, and when asked to explain your views, in the beta forums, you ignore the questions. I'm trying to

1. Be more transparent about the beta
2. Figure out where things went wrong with the mod
3. Be active in the community
4. Learn and get good at the game
5. Filter through the pessimistic and mean posts
6. Be constructive
7. Not be mean in return.

That last part is becoming much harder every time I read posts like these. If you have given up on the mod why are you still here? Why is Bridget still here? Do you think maybe the dev team got silent because of rude/mean/ignorant/demanding/pessimistic posts? Let me guess, no. What should we do then?

[GenghisTron]

Originally Posted by Majesty

Why would I talk about TF2 if I didn't want any focus on it? The entire thread is about why it failed competitively. That's all I've been talking about the entire time, which makes a good topic as to what to avoid when developing for a competitive game. You think? Let me guess, no. I'm doing something wrong, right?

I think you're misunderstanding my (simple) point. You're casting aspersions about a rival game, which is never productive. My argument was, stop focusing on TF2, and focus on FF, instead. It makes you come off as abrasive, bitter, and biased, and is not productive, at all. In fact, it's pretty juvenile.

As for TF2's purported failure, I'm going reiterate what I and others said earlier: Your analysis of their 'failure' is purely subjective. By all other means and measures (save for Majesty's excellent analysis on why TF2 failed ) TF2 is a resounding success. That much is empirical.

Originally Posted by Majesty

What exactly do you consider substance?

I gave you a hint in my post directed at you the other day. Apparently you didn't read it.

Originally Posted by Majesty

You've done nothing but complain about the Dev team,

That's not even close to true. I've offered up plenty of suggestions in the past, and I see very little done by the dev team to remedy the problems that pretty much everyone agrees exist. I've been nothing but reasonable when I address the dev team, and I'm sure people like squeek would confirm that. While I fundamentally agree with most of what Bridget has to say, I disagree with his delivery, and I've stated that in the past.

Stop making up stuff (which seems to be a recurring theme in your posts) and attacking people who don't blindly walk around like Zombies saying that FF is the best game ever and has a great dev team, because that's pretty much all you've done in your very short stay on these forums.

Originally Posted by Majesty

and when asked to explain your views, in the beta forums, you ignore the questions.

lol wat?

Originally Posted by Majesty

Be more transparent about the beta

Ok, well you can start by... being more transparent about the beta, and mute about shit you don't know about, or things you shouldn't be commenting on.

Originally Posted by Majesty

Figure out where things went wrong with the mod

That's a good start. Perhaps instead of creating threads on why TF2 failed, you should create threads on why FF failed. Yea, that sounds like a really good start.

Originally Posted by Majesty

Be active in the community

That's fine and dandy, but when you act as a representative of a community, you shouldn't act mentally unstable. Attacking your rivals is something that makes you look mentally unstable, and reflects poorly on not only you, but the community you represent.

Originally Posted by Majesty

Learn and get good at the game

See you in a few months.

Originally Posted by Majesty

Filter through the pessimistic and mean posts

Only a fool would be an optimist after following this game for more than a few months. Posts are 'mean' and 'pessimistic' because people are fed up. Simply 'filtering through them' is just another strike against your character. You keep trying to come off like you're some pragmatist, but in reality, you're very arrogant and irrational. Take some cues from squeek, he acts like a community representative should.

Originally Posted by Majesty

Be constructive

Again, critiquing TF2 is contradictory to this purported 'goal'.

Originally Posted by Majesty

Not be mean in return.

Originally Posted by Majesty

That last part is becoming much harder every time I read posts like these.

Wouldn't be a problem if you conducted yourself in a reasonable manner in the first place.

Originally Posted by Majesty

If you have given up on the mod why are you still here?

Again, you're making posts and forming arguments with very little knowledge, and it's showing pretty clearly. I've publicly stated on these forums multiple times, that I have a hardware problem (more specifically a video card issue), and I don't have it in my budget, or in my schedule to fix my computer and play video games. I fully intend on being a part of this community in the future, but at the current time, I have too much going on and no will to fix my computer.

(Pro-tip: In the future, before saying brash things, do your homework)

[Bridget]

The thing that made me laugh was when the thread title got changed to "Why Team Fortress 2 failed competitively", and even that change did nothing to save the fate of this thread. All of the points that were originally made still say nothing about the competitive scene in Team Fortress 2.

Reason #1: Instant respawn? Competitive players who play in pickup games do not use instant respawn. Why do you keep making this base-less claim that 90% of the servers use instant respawn, too, if you are focusing on competitive play? Those are public servers.

Reason #2: The class updates were made to balance the classes. Why do you think they started with the classes most in need (Medic, Pyro, Heavy) and worked down to the classes less in need (Soldier, Demoman, Engineer) at the end of their rounds of class updates? You think the updates broke balance, but everyone knows they were made to address class balance.

Reason #3: What the fuck does crafting have to do with competitive play? Competitive players aren't going to be sitting in spawn crafting or trading. Besides, most of the competitive games have been very forgiving when it comes to crafting. When new items come out, they are usually restricted from competitive play to allow Valve time to balance them, as well as allow players to obtain them. Another dumb point, really.

I am going to agree with Genghistron here. This thread was made for the purpose of getting yourself attention. Unfortunately for you, not everyone here is ignorant of how Team Fortress 2 works. Maybe you should become more educated on how something actually works before trying to write a master's thesis on it. It's a dangerous thing to do, because a handful of people here haven't even played Team Fortress 2, and might consider your uninformed opinions as how TF2 actually works, simply because you're in a position of power as a Fortress Forever Developer that doesn't know how Fortress Forever works, let alone other games in the TF franchise.

Also, spare me the small-talk private messages. If you can't look past my pessimistic attitude to the heart of what I say, then that's your fault; not mine. As Genghistron has pointed out, it's hard to be optimistic around here. I know that sounds insane to you, because you just recently showed up here and got your mood elevated by becoming a developer, but maybe you should have spent a little more time as a regular trying to make sense of things before blasting our perspective of things.

[Crazycarl]

Everyone here has a right to give their opinion. If you don't like someone's opinion, give your own and then sit down. If someone gives specious facts, cite your own facts. Stop the personal attacks.

[Bridget]

There are no personal attacks; It's called criticism.

[Crazycarl]

No personal criticism.

[eomoyaff]

Originally Posted by GenghisTron

This whole thing just comes off as an elaborate way to pay extensive lip service to FF and bolster the communities' opinion of yourself. Instead of focusing on the perceived failures of a rival game, why not focus your attention into more creative avenues, such as the game you're supposed to be helping 'develop'. What you're doing is vanity, and this game needs a lot less vanity, and a lot more substance

This is exactly what I was thinking and I had not even clicked the actual topic before thinking it. Why are you focused on a game other then this, competitively even?.. And why just the competitive aspect?.. I think the last thing we need to see come from ANY DEVELOPER working on FF is talk about TF2.. This is embarrassing.. Redeem yourself Majesty..

Edit: No hatred, Maj. I'm just waiting for you to prove some worth to the FF team.

[Majesty]

Sorry for trying to voice my opinion guys LOLOL!!

[be_]

Maybe it's this kind of fail?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fail
u know, as in, sucks? which is an opinion.

Don't see why anyone has to get all defensive because someone stated their opinion. He said his, others said theirs. As Crazycarl said, If you don't like someone's opinion, give your own and then sit down. A statement was made, and another perspective was given. What more is there to discuss?

Do some question his ability to deliver? I would rather wait and see what he can actually deliver and not judge on an opinion of another game.

[Majesty]

Thanks, be. Here's an image that further drives the point home.

[Pixel]

This game has been very good at attracting certain types of person

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by be_

Don't see why anyone has to get all defensive because someone stated their opinion. He said his, others said theirs. As Crazycarl said, If you don't like someone's opinion, give your own and then sit down. A statement was made, and another perspective was given. What more is there to discuss?

He stated his opinion. It happened to have been based on misinformation and/or misunderstandings. He got called on that through other people's opinions. No wrongs were committed. The only problem in this thread is people, like yourself, defending him because he sees criticism of his opinions and motives as some sort of personal attack.

[Elmo]

No the fact is you're always 'calling' people on stuff they say (as you say?!)

Let it go man, try n relax. Is your mind ever at peace or are you always so tense about everything? Live a little... have a beer, smoke a J... whatever gets you mellow man...

[Bridget]

What if being tense gets me mellow?

[be_]

Originally Posted by Bridget

He stated his opinion. It happened to have been based on misinformation and/or misunderstandings. He got called on that through other people's opinions. No wrongs were committed. The only problem in this thread is people, like yourself, defending him because he sees criticism of his opinions and motives as some sort of personal attack.

You call that defending? I was just saying that I do not understand why you make such a big deal out of this. I still don't, and don't really care. But since you called me out, I will write to you this one time.

I do not see your posts as attacks more than I see them as arguments. It looks that way when you continually request evidence to back up his claims. To which, I ask again, what more is there to discuss? There is no need for a rebuttal, because it was, as you agree, an opinion. This is not a debate. It was an expression. He expressed his thought and you are pressing for him to prove it. It's probably why he does not respond to you. Personally, I would tell you to just fuck off, I don't need to defend myself to you or "redeem" myself as someone else put it, for stating my opinion. Think what you will of it, take what you will of it. There is no point. I love RNZ's post; which summed it up perfectly: Who cares. Apparently you, but I wonder who else? Your friends? It's really not that important, so why do you bother.

If I say a book sucks and list why, that's clearly my opinion. If you told me how I am completely misinformed, then I'd appreciate the feedback and move on. That's a healthy critique.

But here you are, saying why it is not true, calling the thread stupid, baiting him to respond, and belittling the OP by mocking him with your top 3 reasons back as to why the thread failed. And you call this criticism.

You say he cannot defend himself, yet say that you are not attacking, and also that he is challenged, but I do not recall the thread poster asking for a debate.

Again, it's probably why he doesn't respond to you. Because who wants to waste time debating on something so menial with someone so rude?

I look forward to your next loooong wall of text picking apart each little thing I said with witty responses. But remember this. I... Don't... Care... Got it? At the end of the post, it was all a waste of time. And Majesty is actually trying to improve the game... what are you doing? You're here. On the forums. Every day. Waiting for the next thread to start so you can whore yourself for attention. I've seen some of your posts, trying to come off as a bright, outspoken thinker, who ironically claims to value free speech. But it is only pseudo-intellectual trolling. And you are not the first to do it.

So have at it. But nobody cares.