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View Poll Results: Push for smaller league format?
Yes, we should try 4v4/5v5 22 40.74%
No, keep the chaos of 9v9/8v8 32 59.26%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-02-2007, 01:24 PM   #1
zsleek7
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Default League Play Format

I'm sure everyone knows that the default layout for tfc was 9v9/8v8. This worked well because it was highly unique to the game. What I am wondering is that with the new generation of TF (TF2 and/or FF) should we push for a 4v4 or 5v5 format (1 half offense, 1 half defense) to make the game more LANable? In TFC there was hardly any LANs compared to other smaller team size games, thus making them more sponsorable. On top of that, when the TFC scene was at its peak major lan tournaments were not as developed as they are today.

A few more added benefits to going this route
-The removal of yard d & offense vs offense, both of which became a hot topic in the late years of tfc.
-Would be one of the most spectator friendly games in this format (9v9 is already good, but this would make it so that specs wouldn't miss a beat)
-Players would have to master a variety of classes in order to be competitive
-Would create a bigger IRC presence, since teams would be able to scrim more against other teams instead of just doing o vs d with their own team. I mean seriously, how many non-match full team scrims do you see team vs team in TFC? Now that you have that number compare it to games such as BF2 or CS:S and then you will realize how much more community interaction occurs with a smaller format.

What do you think?

Last edited by zsleek7; 05-02-2007 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 05-02-2007, 01:31 PM   #2
ekiM
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I always thought 5v5 was the most fun way to play organised TFC. Much more dynamic, much less need for "unwritten rules".
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Old 05-02-2007, 01:41 PM   #3
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eKim, you do understand that I am saying 1 half offense and 1 half defense, not 5v5 o and d at the same time. The reason for this is to preserve the classic maps instead of having to use a limited variety of smaller ones.
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Old 05-02-2007, 01:45 PM   #4
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Huh? Why can't they coexist.
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Old 05-02-2007, 01:47 PM   #5
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I guess I am kinda on the fence with this one. The OvD 4v4/5v5 format would make forming clans and getting enough people for matches easier. However, using that format limits some of the strategies and fun that comes out of a full 8v8/9v9 game. Some of the most fun I've had comes from matches where both teams are trying to push flags in the closing seconds of a round.

With that said, who says there needs to be a "default" league format? Would be nice to see some variety.
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Old 05-02-2007, 01:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zsleek7
eKim, you do understand that I am saying 1 half offense and 1 half defense, not 5v5 o and d at the same time. The reason for this is to preserve the classic maps instead of having to use a limited variety of smaller ones.
I was talking about 5v5 full game.
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Old 05-02-2007, 02:44 PM   #7
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I played TFC for many years and the thought of LANing in a competitive nature never crossed my mind. However, after exploring the CS:S and DoD:S worlds, I have found that LANing can significantly increase the amount of enjoyment that you can find in a game. The best part of this is obviously when you get an all expense paid for package to play the game you love with the friends you developed relationships with.

Also, the scrimming aspect that is so foreign to TFC would be now be possible with this new format. This would provide a great boost to the community because instead of playing pickups, you can play with your own team since getting 4-5 people on at the same time is many times easier than getting 8-9 people on at the same time.

Setting a default league size at the beggining of the game is important because the format usually carries over throughout the game's life. In American TFC 9v9 was that format, all the other formats were mini-games in comparison to the level of play. Changing it to 5v5 (1 half offense, 1 h alf defense) would be the best way to attract possible sponsors to the game so that
-a larger amount of teams would not have to pay for their server/voice comms
-much larger opportunity for lans since # of teams would close to double

I do not believe reducing the format to 5v5 attack defend style would lose any of the positive 9v9 dynamics, because thats what most clan practices are composed of. The only tweaking that may be needed is a smaller middle area for certain maps. I know that some people may despise this idea since its basically converting all maps to the attack/defend style, except that they dont have to be maps that will change layout when you get past a certain area. Actually, now that I think about it this could be the way to merge both communities together in a way if you rotate both styles of maps in the mapcycle.

Again, the point is to create a bigger, more efficient, and more skilled team base in the TF2 and/or FF communities so that they will be able to take advantage of sponsors and more community interaction (more full team scrims, less pickup games)
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Old 05-02-2007, 02:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zsleek7
Setting a default league size at the beggining of the game is important because the format usually carries over throughout the game's life. In American TFC 9v9 was that format, all the other formats were mini-games in comparison to the level of play. Changing it to 5v5 (1 half offense, 1 h alf defense) would be the best way to attract possible sponsors to the game so that
-a larger amount of teams would not have to pay for their server/voice comms
-much larger opportunity for lans since # of teams would close to double
I guess you weren't playing long enough to know that the popular team size in the beginning of TFC league play was 8v8. It changed to 9v9 a year or 2 into it (forget when exactly that was).

I don't see why you can't have both styles of leagues. There's going to be a lot of old salts that won't be able to fathom not playing 8v8/9v9. Newer players will be more open to trying other formats.

Perhaps the 4v4/5v5 OvD style league would do well in a CAL setting where it will get much more exposure.
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Old 05-02-2007, 03:10 PM   #9
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Isn't it a little soon to be trying to delegate what we should do for leagues? How can we possibly know what is best now.

IMO at this moment I'm in favor of both 9v9/8v8 and 5v5/4v4 because it gives people choice. If one becomes extremely more popular than the other then leagues could choose choose. I voted 9v9 in the poll b/c I favor keeping it around and I guess that was the best choice.
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Old 05-02-2007, 03:29 PM   #10
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Bigger is better
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Old 05-02-2007, 04:17 PM   #11
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keep 9v9/8v8 and introduce the 5v5 ovd as well. now everyone is happy...
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Old 05-02-2007, 04:54 PM   #12
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I've never really enjoyed playing 5v5 or 4v4 clan matches. I think its much more exciting to have both teams going at it at once. Plus, I'm a dedicated offy player and hate playing defense so it wouldn't really suit me.

Its worth a look, of course, but I'm not desperate for change unless a really low player base demands it.
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Old 05-02-2007, 06:01 PM   #13
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have both
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Old 05-02-2007, 06:07 PM   #14
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it could still suit you. a clan would have O members and D members as normal. when it's D's turn... the D members go in. when the round ends and it's time to switch, the O members go in and the D sits. they shouldn't have to be the same players... they just have to be rostered.
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Old 05-02-2007, 06:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermojo
have both
see? lol.
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Old 05-02-2007, 06:34 PM   #16
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Why not try both? I don't really see the big deal is. In DoD 1.3 they had 3 v 3, 6 v 6, and some really big realism matches. The most competitive divisions were the 6 v 6 but each had its own niche. If the game gets big enough for lan's the community might have to start dividing into the main game size. I'm current cal-main DoD:s and the format is 6 v 6. SteelSeries is having a 5 v 5 Cal tournament and no teams played in 5 v 5. Yeah sure teams have to adapt a bit. But the strategies are still the same.
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Old 05-02-2007, 07:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allisvoid
it could still suit you. a clan would have O members and D members as normal. when it's D's turn... the D members go in. when the round ends and it's time to switch, the O members go in and the D sits. they shouldn't have to be the same players... they just have to be rostered.
The thing that sucks about that is that you end up playing either half as long as you usually do or matches take twice as long than a standard 8v8/9v9 match.

I think both styles have their pros and cons and it would be nice to see both styles out there.
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Old 05-02-2007, 09:00 PM   #18
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Ye lets cut football fields in half too and play with 5 and a half players on each side.
I voted no btw.
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Old 05-02-2007, 09:03 PM   #19
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Gawd forbid you have some variety and do both.
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Old 05-02-2007, 10:10 PM   #20
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