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Old 10-25-2012, 06:08 PM   #1
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shooting down ideas

This is a serious question. I want to start off by saying I am not starting this thread to start a flame war, or piss anyone off.

Why is it that the majority of new features/class specific stuff/ideas/etc, get shot down by the majority of the people who play FF? Because it strays too far from tfc? Because its not something that neotf has? Well guess what people, THIS ISNT TFC. IT ISNT NEOTF. IT ISNT TF2. This game is not designed to play exactly like tfc. or any other fps. Adding things like Overpressure, jump pads, or anything else is what sets this game apart from tfc. This is not TFC Source dammit. Also, I dont see how it unbalances the game (wanted to throw that out there real quick). The majority of the differences add speed and a faster pace, and things require people to THINK more and use at least some strategy. theres a fatty at a choke point, omg overpressure. well, go a different route. almost all of the maps have multiple routes. I think people are just so used to going one way EVERY time, they dont want to do something different cause its not the fastest possible way. I played monkey yesterday with about 6 or 7 other people. I was offense. flag room was empty so I knew the front door was guarded well. I grabbed the flag and went the water route THE ENTIRE WAY. yea it took forever, but I got a cap. an easy cap. strategy people. strategy...

now im just rambling. discuss. flame me. curse me. IDGAF.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:30 PM   #2
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now im just rambling. discuss. flame me. curse me. IDGAF.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:05 PM   #3
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Thou art worth less than a fishnet condom!

I thought this was TFC Source when I first started playing, but I like FF the way it is minus a few annoying imbalances.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:13 PM   #4
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minus a few annoying imbalances.
and those are?
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:30 PM   #5
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and those are?
The pyro. Also, the sniper just feels meh to me in all honesty.

I haven't played in a while, can't remember much else that I didn't like about the game.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:38 PM   #6
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Just because it isn't TFC doesn't mean you have to add stupid shit to make it different. The reason things get shot down has nothing to do with how like or unlike any other game is, it's just about how fun or annoying the idea is.

Even if you like the idea of over pressure it's still a mess and annoying to play against. It's implemented poorly imo, or at least just not a fully fleshed out idea.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:00 PM   #7
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Just because it isn't TFC doesn't mean you have to add stupid shit to make it different. The reason things get shot down has nothing to do with how like or unlike any other game is, it's just about how fun or annoying the idea is.

Even if you like the idea of over pressure it's still a mess and annoying to play against. It's implemented poorly imo, or at least just not a fully fleshed out idea.
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:34 PM   #8
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With every good idea, there are a thousand bad ones. You can't expect to come up with the best idea right away. It has to be developed and updated and changed and tinkered with until you get something that is satisfactory.

While I agree adding stupid shit to the game isn't good, but what is considered stupid to one person might be considered a good feature to someone else. It's all a matter of perspective.

So when I say a medigun to replace medkits/throwable med packs is one of the best ideas for FF I've heard in a while, I also know that if implemented it would need to be tinkered with until it's something that people might enjoy and there will likely be some people that will never like it. That will happen with any new feature. Hell, there are features in TFC I still don't like but I got over it. What most people do when talking about a potential addition to a game, is jump to conclusions by assuming they understand how the addition will work.

I think what it boils down to is people don't like change, so they get defensive and stick to what is familiar, because they are afraid a new feature might not work and the consequences after that. I'd much rather see 2 versions of this game, one that stays true to the style of TFC/QTF and another that branches off, evolving into something different while remembering where it started. But that's not the reality. We have a mod that sorta does both. I think with every new player that comes along, the more unique it becomes because you then have another person to give another perspective on the game play, and who can present new ideas that will help keep this mod going.
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:15 PM   #9
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So when I say a medigun to replace medkits/throwable med packs is one of the best ideas for FF I've heard in a while, I also know that if implemented it would need to be tinkered with until it's something that people might enjoy and there will likely be some people that will never like it.
Ok, this is a question just for Moto. What is wrong with medpacs as it stands? Why change something that isn't broken? It's already much different than its predecessor. What would a medigun bring to the table? That it might trick someone into thinking this game is like TF2? Tricking people into trying the game isn't the best option, in my opinion.

Also, just my opinion, but of all the TF2 classes the Medic's gameplay is the most contrary to Fortress Games. It's almost a pure support class. The FF Engineer is the only support class and it could barely be called that.

I don't care what is changed. As long as the devs are willing to admit when something isn't working OR admit when something is working and that they intend to stand by it.
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:24 PM   #10
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Kube, that would be a legitimate thesis if we hadn't, you know

BEEN PLAYING WITH IT FOR ALMOST A FREAKING YEAR! THE FEATURE WAS A HYPOTHESIS. WE'VE BEEN RUNNING AN EXPERIMENT ON IT FOR ALMOST A YEAR. NOW WE HAVE CONCLUSIONS. THIS IS KNOWN AS THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD. SO PLEASE COULD WE BETA TEST MORE? HOLY SHIT! I WANT TO TEST AND TWEAK THIS GAME AND MAKE IT PERFECT. I'M HAPPY TO TRY NEW SHIT, BUT NOT LEAVE BAD SHIT IN THE GAME. THIS REQUIRES AN ACTIVE COMMITMENT TO TESTING AND CHANGING VARIABLES AND FEATURES IN THE GAME.

HELP ME HELP YOU HELP US ALL.

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Old 10-25-2012, 11:06 PM   #11
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I have to weigh in on the topic of a heal gun because it makes me so angry.

The medkit, both throwable and melee, is neither hard to use or useless, as some would suggest. Throwables have to be the most usefull thing FF could have given the medic. So valuable when used correctly. You either throw them down in a well traveled area, either front line chokes, or around the flag SG. A team mate is going to pick them up, I promise you. Or you throw them at a team mate you happen to run into. Quick and easy.

Also infecting is as easy as concing at your infection target, there's literally no more to it than that. Prime a conc out of his LOS conc at with with your medkit out.

A higher focus on healing and infecting just doesn't make sense. Alot of that reason is being healed on an O run means just about jack all. It's good for a close escape, but other than that it doesn't matter. Because if you're hurt you're probly missing a lot of your armor and even if you get full health you're just going to get tore up pretty fast due to your lack of armor. It also just doesn't fit the pacing of the game, it's more valuable to just go die and respawn, and it will always be that way unless they add in respawn times.

Honestly healing just doesn't belong in FF outside of current healing means. Yes I know there is a class specifically named Medic, but if you think that is or should be his job, then I find that rather naive. Sure it would be possible to make that his job, but not without really screwing up the pacing and feel of the game, as well as leaving a rather sour taste in some peoples mouths.
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homie in reboks' View Post
Ok, this is a question just for Moto. What is wrong with medpacs as it stands? Why change something that isn't broken? It's already much different than its predecessor. What would a medigun bring to the table? That it might trick someone into thinking this game is like TF2? Tricking people into trying the game isn't the best option, in my opinion.

Also, just my opinion, but of all the TF2 classes the Medic's gameplay is the most contrary to Fortress Games. It's almost a pure support class. The FF Engineer is the only support class and it could barely be called that.

I don't care what is changed. As long as the devs are willing to admit when something isn't working OR admit when something is working and that they intend to stand by it.
Med packs can be useful, but IMO the delivery method of med packs is what bothers me. Plus, the medkit is effectively useless with how fast this game is. Why would throwable med packs be added unless there was something wrong with the medkit? Giving the medic a weapon that would allow them to shoot teammates or enemies from short-medium range means your teammates won't have to slow down to pickup the medpacks or call for the medic to drop them.

A scout could be on openfire trying to grab the flag and you, the medic, sees they're about to die. You can't get to them in time to throw some medpacks down because you are near upper battlements. Using a projectile-type weapon and assuming you know how to aim, you could give your teammate just enough health to get out of their base alive.

On top of that, this same projectile could infect an enemy for a short period of time and the more you are hit with it, the more intense/rapid the infection hits. If hit enough times can and will kill, but I'd imagine the values would need to be adjusted so you couldn't just easily heal a teammate back to full health or start dropping HWs with a few blasts of the gun.
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:51 PM   #13
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Med packs can be useful, but IMO the delivery method of med packs is what bothers me. Plus, the medkit is effectively useless with how fast this game is. Why would throwable med packs be added unless there was something wrong with the medkit? Giving the medic a weapon that would allow them to shoot teammates or enemies from short-medium range means your teammates won't have to slow down to pickup the medpacks or call for the medic to drop them.

A scout could be on openfire trying to grab the flag and you, the medic, sees they're about to die. You can't get to them in time to throw some medpacks down because you are near upper battlements. Using a projectile-type weapon and assuming you know how to aim, you could give your teammate just enough health to get out of their base alive.

On top of that, this same projectile could infect an enemy for a short period of time and the more you are hit with it, the more intense/rapid the infection hits. If hit enough times can and will kill, but I'd imagine the values would need to be adjusted so you couldn't just easily heal a teammate back to full health or start dropping HWs with a few blasts of the gun.

Yes you keep saying these things, and I'm trying to tell you these things you're saying are exactly what's wrong with the idea.
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:51 PM   #14
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I have to weigh in on the topic of a heal gun because it makes me so angry.
No reason to be angry. Medic is pretty much the least likely class to get changed at this point.

EDIT: That is to say, I'm satisfied about where the medic is at right now and I agree with you about healing mechanics.
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:53 PM   #15
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No reason to be angry. Medic is pretty much the least likely class to get changed at this point.

EDIT: That is to say, I'm satisfied about where the medic is at right now and I agree with you about healing mechanics.
Angry is a strong word for it maybe. It's just something I feel very strongly about.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:10 AM   #16
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That is to say, I'm satisfied about where the medic is at right now and I agree with you about healing mechanics.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:39 AM   #17
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If the medic needs a change, the only change they should get is a retitling to "Combat Medic". So people don't stick the idea of a TF2 medic on to him so much.

We still need someone to port tn_guyz over to show people just how strong the medic's touch-healing is. Up to 99 health, ~twice a second? It's really fucking good. The problem is that it's not as feasible on O, but D medics have their place, and obviously O medic is a staple.

And throwing medkits is a great idea, one of the best changes FF did to the medic.

if only people knew how to actually use them in pickups christ guys it's not hard

just bind it to +mouse1 if you really have that much trouble
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:09 AM   #18
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Yeah you can pretty much throw them anywhere and everywhere and they'll heal something.
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Old 10-28-2012, 04:46 PM   #19
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I didn't read most of this thread but on the topic of medpacks: how about if there's medpacks lying around the player a medkit symbol appears on the hud with an arrow pointing to the location of them? This would be beneficial to both the medic who is dropping valuable medpacks and doesn't want them to die of loneliness somewhere on the ground and the target who needs some hp and is wondering if there's a medpack around. If people wouldn't like this you could always put an option to turn it off in the fortress options. Just a thought.
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Old 10-28-2012, 06:47 PM   #20
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I didn't read most of this thread but on the topic of medpacks: how about if there's medpacks lying around the player a medkit symbol appears on the hud with an arrow pointing to the location of them? This would be beneficial to both the medic who is dropping valuable medpacks and doesn't want them to die of loneliness somewhere on the ground and the target who needs some hp and is wondering if there's a medpack around. If people wouldn't like this you could always put an option to turn it off in the fortress options. Just a thought.
I wouldn't mind that as long as they only show up in a small vicinity. I wouldn't want to half the map away and see those on the screen.
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