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Old 05-03-2007, 03:27 PM   #1
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THE SHOWDOWN: Does God exist?

Well, we will find out for sure this Wednesday.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=3130360&page=1

*snicker*
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:35 PM   #2
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huh? Let's make it a TV special why don't we. Just give more people a reason to trust the judgment of what we're told....
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Old 05-03-2007, 04:29 PM   #3
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Fuck Kirk Cameron and fuck his jar of peanut butter
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Old 05-03-2007, 04:44 PM   #4
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Atheism has always facinated me. In Atheism there is no good or evil, there is no right and wrong, there is no moral definition. Killing another human being is no different then killing an animal or an insect, it's survival of the fittest. They choose to either do something, or not do something, based soley on the immediate consequence of their action or inaction and how that can best benefit them. That has to be a very freeing way to live.

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Old 05-03-2007, 04:54 PM   #5
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Religion should've taken a decline in influence around 0AD. End of.
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuzzy
Atheism has always facinated me. In Atheism there is no good or evil, there is no right and wrong, there is no moral definition. Killing another human being is no different then killing an animal or an insect, it's survival of the fittest. They choose to either do something, or not do something, based soley on the immediate consequence of their action or inaction and how that can best benefit them. That has to be a very freeing way to live.

Scuzzy
Now that's an ass opinion...
I mean, of course there is right or wrong, and killing an human is not different at all thank killing an insect, I mean, if we don't have the right to take a man's life, who gave us the right to take an animal's (not human!) life?
Anyway, one of the things that I really think should happend is a natural selection AMONG human race, come on! if we keep having babies on this speed soon there'll be no room for anyone on the earth, and man will surely try to go to another planet, and then destroy that planet too.
Viruses are more inteligent than we are for fuck's sake (at least some of them), 'cause they infect someone, make their life, and die, AND DO NOT KILL THE INFECTED (in some cases, do not insert douch comment here, please.), wich is exactly what we're doing.

(Wow, got totally off-topic, but hey, I needed to say this to someone)
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:08 PM   #7
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Theism has always fascinated me. In theism there is no good or evil, there is no right and wrong, there is no moral definition. There is only a set of rules, laid down by The Book. Theists choose to either do something, or not do something, based soley on the consequence their action or inaction will have for them in the afterlife.

It's pretty scary living in a world with people who would be completely amoral if they realised their delusions for what they were.
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:24 PM   #8
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I'd love to see how you support that Theists have no good or evil and that they'd be amoral without the moral code that stems from their beliefs. I don't believe you can support it while maintaining any measure of intellectual honesty.
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:27 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuzzy
Atheism has always facinated me. In Atheism there is no good or evil, there is no right and wrong, there is no moral definition. Killing another human being is no different then killing an animal or an insect, it's survival of the fittest. They choose to either do something, or not do something, based soley on the immediate consequence of their action or inaction and how that can best benefit them. That has to be a very freeing way to live.

Scuzzy
don't misunderstand this as to say they are rebels without a cause. they don't just go around killing people, of course. they just believe that you do what you want because you want to or you don't do it because you don't want to and whatever happens as a result is your fault and you must live with that consequence. your actions are dictated by the consequences of those actions, long term or immediate except god is not a factor. so, "i cannot watch this horror movie because god wouldn't want me to" is not an example of reasoning by an atheist. that and when you die you are dead and you rot in the ground. it is a very freeing way to live because you are not sculpting your life around some book written by who knows how many people and changed and amended who knows how many times. you can do whatever you want as long as you are okay with whats going to happen as a result of what you choose to do.

me, i more or less don't even bother wasting my time believing or not believing... in other words i am not a die hard atheist nor am i religious. i just live. i obey the law (some what) and that's that. i do what i need to do to survive and call it a day. just makes no sense to live my life according to some story written ages ago but if you do then, whatever floats your boat.

EDIT: oh and if anyone finds this topic interesting you should rent the documentary called JESUS CAMP. it is about this camp they have for young children (under the age of 8 mostly but all age ranges are welcome) where they teach them the evangelistic way of life. "We think it is important to teach kids at a very early age because what they learn by the time they are 8 or 9 years old is pretty much ingrained in the heads" is what the camp founders says. when asked "Don't you think this is a little unfair to the children? Giving them no choice or option to choose what to believe..." all they do is repeat "We think it is important to teach them at an early age... etc etc" which doesn't even answer the question. these kids are at this camp smashing ceramic coffee cups in the name of jesus. they are "speaking in tongues" and preaching to the other kids. it is very scary... a good watch. eye opener.

Last edited by allisvoid; 05-03-2007 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innoc
I'd love to see how you support that Theists have no good or evil and that they'd be amoral without the moral code that stems from their beliefs. I don't believe you can support it while maintaining any measure of intellectual honesty.
Hint : Read Scuzzy's post. Then re-read mine. Then engage your brain and try and figure out what I'm actually saying.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:11 PM   #11
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allisvoid wins the thread.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekiM
Hint : Read Scuzzy's post. Then re-read mine. Then engage your brain and try and figure out what I'm actually saying.
Engage my brain? Right, so insulting someone is helpful. ok.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skuLL
allisvoid wins the thread.
Allisvoid is citing extreme example and I think the implication is that it's representative of the whole. If that's true then he's wrong. There are troubling members of both Theists and Atheists and neither should be viewed as being representative of their respective groups. Each side has it's whacked out Evangelists.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:35 PM   #14
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Is this shit necessary?

Let people believe what they want and let them be.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:38 PM   #15
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Has the interwebz still not learned that talking about any matters as serious as religion, political opinion, or methods of raising children is simply a flame-fest waiting to happen?
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innoc
Engage my brain?
I'll spell it out for you.
  • Scuzzy claims that atheists have no morality, because they have no religion.
  • I point out that by this logic, theists only have morality because of their religion so they really have no morality at all.
  • I don't actually think theists have no morality. I was using rhetorical irony to show how Scuzzy's claim (atheists have no morality) is ridiculous. Understand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Innoc
Right, so insulting someone is helpful. ok.
This is very funny, coming from you.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:47 PM   #17
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Hawk Eye, whatever happens, I think it's still way better than saying nothing.

Anyways, I support Allisvoid and ekiM in this thread so far.

Scuzzy, I really don't understand how you can say that there's no moral definition in Atheism. Did you really mean that? If anything, Atheism is based around morality and religion is based around faith.

Last edited by Sh4x; 05-03-2007 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 05-03-2007, 07:19 PM   #18
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Fingaru Pantsu!
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Old 05-03-2007, 07:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Book
"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. Q.E.D."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and white is black and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing. While most leading theologians believe this argument to be a load of dingo's kidneys, that didn't stop Oolon Colluphid making a small fortune when he used it as the central theme of his best-selling book, Well That About Wraps It Up For God.
'nuf said
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Old 05-03-2007, 07:21 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innoc
I'd love to see how you support that Theists have no good or evil and that they'd be amoral without the moral code that stems from their beliefs. I don't believe you can support it while maintaining any measure of intellectual honesty.
First off, I did NOT say that Atheist are "amoral" or that they go around kiling people. You guys need to learn to read more carefully. Let me explain a little more clearly and you can make your arguements.

If Atheism is true then natural evolution is the only end result of mankind. No creationism, no God. In nature there are no "Good" creatures or "Bad" creatures. Each animal, on his own accord, makes choices about what they do. Do they kill something for food? Do they kill something to get it's mate? Do they kill something to protect their pissing ground? These are judgements an animal makes and there is no "right or wrong" about them, they are simply choices. It doesn't make the animal (or person) immoral, because the concept of a "moral" can not exist with the classic definition as it does in a religous belief system.

If you truely embrace Atheism to it's logical conclusion then the *concepts* of good and evil do not exist, they are mearly words that are applied to things that one person likes or dislikes. Morals are just a conceptual set of rules makes by society to govern people, but they are not rights endowed by a creator in Atheism. No living creature in Atheism has a *right* to life, because again "rights" are just something a true atheist believes man made up. If you are an atheist there is no value upon your life other then that you put on it yourself, once you are gone you are gone.

This is why I said killing is completely normal in a true Atheistic view of society, if one wolf wants anothers mate, they take it, even if it means killing to get her. That's nature, that's atheism, man could do the same thing and it would be no different.

Now, that does not mean all atheist are killers, nor that they want to go out and kill. Many atheists believe in live and let live and that's fine, that is their choice. But there's no basis for that belief, other then it benefits them because they do not fear for their own life and they do not want to go to jail. Again, this doesn't mean that Atheist are bad people or do not live under a code of conduct that they've assigned to themselves, most do.

Again, this is a debate on the concepts of Atheism and their logical conclusion, not individuals, I'm not attacking anyone here.

Scuzzy
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Last edited by Scuzzy; 05-03-2007 at 07:27 PM.
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