How to fix FF

[chilledsanity]

Originally Posted by Gwarsbane

You're wrong because yes there are people who enjoy going up against a sniper as a non-sniper class at long distance.

I'm one of them. And I am pretty good at figuring out how to get out of the base and getting into the enemy base.

Heck even on aardvark, as a spy, I have been able to come out of the sniper deck, get across the map, get up on the enemy sniper deck and stab the snipers. And these aren't noob snipers, these are the snipers that people "complain" about being too good..

Well I stand corrected, I didn't think people enjoyed playing against good snipers as a non-sniper.

[Pixel]

Originally Posted by Gwarsbane

Heck even on aardvark, as a spy, I have been able to come out of the sniper deck, get across the map, get up on the enemy sniper deck and stab the snipers. And these aren't noob snipers, these are the snipers that people "complain" about being too good. Many say they are cheating, but I know better cause I can kill them and I'm not the best player out there.

I just see this as a distraction to the actual goal of the game.

[BinaryLife]

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

I'd say your stance is unbalanced however for this reason:
No one wants to go up against a sniper because at a long enough distance, it's always a stacked fight. Every other class is much more of a fair fight to engage. Hwguy? Conc him and watch him try to adapt. Sg? Shoot it out from a distance and ruin the ng's day, etc.

I respect that. I occasionally like stacked fights but I completely understand that playing against a sniper both is a stacked fight and that not everyone likes one.

My solution to this senario was to "un-stack" it a little. The best way is to give players the ability to pass by him more easily and the easiest way for that is to allow for all weapons to take him out of zoom, and push his aim off target when hit. That way any player with even poor aim, and shoot at the sniper and mess them up. It forces the sniper to be a better sniper by moving around more often, aiming and shooting more accurately and faster. Because if they can't or don't then they are going to loose their shot, and now that player knows where they are and can come kill them. It sounds like a little thing but I think it balances quite nicely.

My problem with the other ideas suggested is that they go too far in the other direction. In the disguise of "balancing" the sniper, they handicap the player so it is basically a class no one would ever want to play. It show a clear motive of not having anyone ever play the sniper so that it can be removed. I am noticing this now, and calling it out directly because to me, it is clear, unproductive, and unhelpful.

But I completely respect your calling me out on that statement, as it is approriately one sided. I hope I explained it well.

Also, raynian, I don't think you know what passive aggressive was. I was essentially trying to avoid flaming and over debating as the point of this thread was to help the mod, not start an argument with no positive end. This is the last I will speak on the matter. I have made my opinion clear and I understand why you disagree. There isn't really anything else to say.

[Agent Buckshot Moose]

Having shots bring the Sniper out of zoom would be a terrible idea. The regular shotgun can hurt you (for like 1 point of damage) from across pretty much any distance.

[reaper18]

Originally Posted by chilldsanity

I'd say your stance is unbalanced however for this reason:
No one wants to go up against a sniper because at a long enough distance, it's always a stacked fight.

This is exactly what a projectile based sniper rifle would fix, or at least, balance. Most of these suggestions are changes that only serve to nerf the sniper. Nerfing him would simply render him useless, and its a hlaf-assed way to fix a broken mechanic.
The sniper, as he currently is, does not belong in FF. But its not because of his long range or his 3rd highest speed, its because of his mechanics. The sniper takes effort to use but none of that is close to things like scout, soldier, demo, etc. All you have to do with the sniper is camp and click. This does not belong. Giving him projectiles lets him keep his unique weapon, without nerfing or removing. Its a compromise that fits the direction that ff takes with skill based classes. The autorifle could use work too, but thats secondary to the problem here, which is hitscan.

[BinaryLife]

Originally Posted by reaper18

This is exactly what a projectile based sniper rifle would fix, or at least, balance. Most of these suggestions are changes that only serve to nerf the sniper. Nerfing him would simply render him useless, and its a hlaf-assed way to fix a broken mechanic.
The sniper, as he currently is, does not belong in FF. But its not because of his long range or his 3rd highest speed, its because of his mechanics. The sniper takes effort to use but none of that is close to things like scout, soldier, demo, etc. All you have to do with the sniper is camp and click. This does not belong. Giving him projectiles lets him keep his unique weapon, without nerfing or removing. Its a compromise that fits the direction that ff takes with skill based classes. The autorifle could use work too, but thats secondary to the problem here, which is hitscan.

This idea sounds perfectly great to me. But what are the concerns with it? Being that it wasn't originally implemented when the game was first started. I feel like there may be a reason. Maybe that reason has been over come and now it's simply that the dev team has to eat some times. But I wonder if we could break it down.

[chilledsanity]

Originally Posted by BinaryLife

I respect that. I occasionally like stacked fights but I completely understand that playing against a sniper both is a stacked fight and that not everyone likes one.

It's not even a matter of it being stacked so much as a completely skewed one. I think most FF players enjoy some stacked fights. Like if you run in a base as a medic with 4+ guys guarding things, that's a stacked fight and it's awesome if you're able to outmaneuver everything.

For the sniper, the slant is a lot less fun. You can try like hell to outmaneuver theirs shots, but it may be futile or unnecessary. With up-close combat, you have constant feedback about what your enemies are doing and can react as such. With a sniper, maybe you DO have to maneuver like hell to avoid him; maybe he's so good it doesn't matter, maybe he's AFK and all your maneuvering against him is completely wasted and you don't even know it. Combine this with you being completely unable to fight back and it's not the most fun combination (for me anyway, Gwarsbane says he enjoys this).

[FreaK367]

Originally Posted by Iggy

You know, I wouldn't mind a modification(nerf?) to the Sniper like what Binary suggests. Taking the shot could "recoil" the rifle, making you re-aim. The higher the charge, the higher the recoil. It wouldn't destroy "speed sniping"(shooting without a charged shot), but a fully charged shot would require you to re-aquire your target. Definitely a good idea. I would guess this would take minimal coding(though I could be wrong), and be fairly easy to implement.

Thoughts?

I'm usually a defender of the sniper, but out of all of the ideas in this thread, I like Iggy's. It's not a massive nerf, the sniper will still be able to snipe, but it will slow the sniper, so once he has taken a shot and needs to re-aim, it gives people a small window to get a move on.

And, it would make the sniper more hesitant to take a shot, knowing if he misses, anyone moving fast will probably escape by the time he re-aims and charges a shot. So shots will be picked carefully.

[Agent Buckshot Moose]

The only thing necessary (if anything is necessary) is a projectile shot. Disorientations, etc are very serious when zoomed. Sniper rifle recoil works when everyone moves slow on their feet in games like CS or CoD. In FF, the .5 - 1 second it takes to realign could mean that your target is now halfway across the level if you miss.