How to make game file sizes 70% smaller

o_[cjff]vultureman · 10-05-2006, 01:59 AM

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/10...be_70_smaller/

just noticed this today on [H]OCP incase yins FF designers could encorporate this into your Steam package (if you had the time, eventually).

Would surely make downloading it alot easier, and would save bandwith (for someone).

o_a boojum snark · 10-05-2006, 03:41 AM

I'm pretty sure this sort of stuff has to be built into the engine, nothing the FF team could do.

o_nezumi · 10-05-2006, 11:48 AM

Is the technology just a better compression algorithm or what?

o_kam · 10-05-2006, 01:13 PM

procedural texturing i think

o_nodnarb · 10-05-2006, 01:44 PM

english is preferred by me

o_scale · 10-05-2006, 08:12 PM

If its not compression then it would rock u would decrease texture memory use by 70% if thats so im really impressed.

o_dammage · 10-05-2006, 08:14 PM

Well, if it is procedural texturing, they could make whole games no bigger than one meg. Actually if worked hard pack it into 99K

But it would squirt every watt out of every computer and the load times ... hmm, would take some time. If a simple algorithm - there was some kind of compression utility for media files, if I remember correctly it was UHA. It had amaizing compression rates for pictures and videos.

I think this app just uses a mixture of both. Finds patterns describable with functions in a texture, then removes them from the source and places a single color instead. This way the image can be compressed pretty easily.

While decompressing it just applies that functions on the image again and voila.

It is of course true that a few integer values in an ascii file as a "texture" are far smaller than an equivalent png/jpeg/tga/whatever as they only hold the pattern. But with such a thing it is quire resource hungry (as you have to generate textures first) and is rather hard to develop realistic textures and it requires to play against a random number generator until you get your own ones.

Therefore I suggest that it is a hybrid of both ways.

Btw, memory usage is not really decreasable. We still hold every pixel in the gfx memory unless you have some kind of fancy vector stuff. That's because we have to decode the stuff encoded in your tiniest ever format has to be decoded into raw bitmaps first.

o_sh4x · 10-05-2006, 10:39 PM

pretty interesting article, thank you!

Dospac · 10-05-2006, 11:41 PM

Their approach won't gain you as much benefit as the quality requirements for game textures increase. Combined with traditional texture generation, it definitely sounds very useful though.

That being said, the patterns that express even very detailed real world objects can be used to vastly compress the data volume that a current generation 3d game engine would need to process to display said objects. The problem again comes from the processing time and code requirements. I'd reckon that advances in AI and procedural content generation will net us very realistic environments in future games, with just a shared 'reality library' and some sufficiently complex design/organizational parameters. We won't need to describe the quantum state of every atom and the complete molecular organization of an object to create one digitally that is convincing enough to fool a present day human's biological sensory capability.

Defrag · 10-06-2006, 12:07 AM

I'll wait and see it before I pass judgement :P

o_cruor · 10-06-2006, 01:21 AM

Well I can't wait for all the procedural stuff that is "SPORE".
That game looks like a blast and will probably not be a strain on the empty space of my hard drive

o_importednoob · 10-30-2006, 04:47 AM

Does Allgorithmic have a stock? ^^

o_zoinky · 10-30-2006, 03:56 PM

You guys may be interested in checking out .kkrieger, which is an FPS in 96 kb (yes, 96 kilobytes!), with sound and everything, which was released back in April '04.

From the readme:

Quote:

We do .not. have some kind of magical data compression machine that is able to squeeze
hundreds of megabytes of mesh/texture and sound data into 96k. We merely store the
individual steps employed by the artists to produce their textures and meshes, in a very
compact way. This allows us to get .much. higher data density than is achievable with
normal data compression techniques, at some expense in artistic freedom and loading times.

Definitely worth a look-see if this kind of thing interests you.

Circuitous · 10-30-2006, 05:32 PM

And framerates.

o_df` · 10-30-2006, 07:19 PM

I would think it was cool if it didn't have the "artistic freedom" tradeoff...fact of the matter is, bandwidth and storage space are so inexpensive that I'd take the 1000 times larger game in exchange for a better looking one, even if wasn't that much better.

10-05-2006, 01:59 AM	#1
o_[cjff]vultureman Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Pitt, PA Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	How to make game file sizes 70% smaller http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/10...be_70_smaller/ just noticed this today on [H]OCP incase yins FF designers could encorporate this into your Steam package (if you had the time, eventually). Would surely make downloading it alot easier, and would save bandwith (for someone).

10-06-2006, 12:07 AM	#10
Defrag Retired FF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Scotland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I'll wait and see it before I pass judgement :P __________________ Fortress Forever. Level Designer, Gameplay Dude and whatnot.

10-30-2006, 05:32 PM	#14
Circuitous Useless Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jun 2005 Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout Gametype: AvD Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	And framerates. __________________ Look at all those dead links.

10-05-2006, 03:41 AM	#2
o_a boojum snark Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Orion Arm Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I'm pretty sure this sort of stuff has to be built into the engine, nothing the FF team could do.

10-05-2006, 11:48 AM	#3
o_nezumi Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Peoples Republic of Harmfull Free Radicals Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Is the technology just a better compression algorithm or what?

10-05-2006, 01:13 PM	#4
o_kam Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melbourne Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	procedural texturing i think

10-05-2006, 01:44 PM	#5
o_nodnarb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Austin, Texas Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	english is preferred by me

10-05-2006, 08:12 PM	#6
o_scale Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	If its not compression then it would rock u would decrease texture memory use by 70% if thats so im really impressed.

10-05-2006, 08:14 PM	#7
o_dammage Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Well, if it is procedural texturing, they could make whole games no bigger than one meg. Actually if worked hard pack it into 99K But it would squirt every watt out of every computer and the load times ... hmm, would take some time. If a simple algorithm - there was some kind of compression utility for media files, if I remember correctly it was UHA. It had amaizing compression rates for pictures and videos. I think this app just uses a mixture of both. Finds patterns describable with functions in a texture, then removes them from the source and places a single color instead. This way the image can be compressed pretty easily. While decompressing it just applies that functions on the image again and voila. It is of course true that a few integer values in an ascii file as a "texture" are far smaller than an equivalent png/jpeg/tga/whatever as they only hold the pattern. But with such a thing it is quire resource hungry (as you have to generate textures first) and is rather hard to develop realistic textures and it requires to play against a random number generator until you get your own ones. Therefore I suggest that it is a hybrid of both ways. Btw, memory usage is not really decreasable. We still hold every pixel in the gfx memory unless you have some kind of fancy vector stuff. That's because we have to decode the stuff encoded in your tiniest ever format has to be decoded into raw bitmaps first.

10-05-2006, 10:39 PM	#8
o_sh4x Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Montreal Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	pretty interesting article, thank you!

10-05-2006, 11:41 PM	#9
Dospac Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Their approach won't gain you as much benefit as the quality requirements for game textures increase. Combined with traditional texture generation, it definitely sounds very useful though. That being said, the patterns that express even very detailed real world objects can be used to vastly compress the data volume that a current generation 3d game engine would need to process to display said objects. The problem again comes from the processing time and code requirements. I'd reckon that advances in AI and procedural content generation will net us very realistic environments in future games, with just a shared 'reality library' and some sufficiently complex design/organizational parameters. We won't need to describe the quantum state of every atom and the complete molecular organization of an object to create one digitally that is convincing enough to fool a present day human's biological sensory capability.

10-06-2006, 01:21 AM	#11
o_cruor Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sweden Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Well I can't wait for all the procedural stuff that is "SPORE". That game looks like a blast and will probably not be a strain on the empty space of my hard drive

10-30-2006, 04:47 AM	#12
o_importednoob Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Does Allgorithmic have a stock? ^^

10-30-2006, 07:19 PM	#15
o_df` Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I would think it was cool if it didn't have the "artistic freedom" tradeoff...fact of the matter is, bandwidth and storage space are so inexpensive that I'd take the 1000 times larger game in exchange for a better looking one, even if wasn't that much better.

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