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Old 09-04-2009, 06:23 AM   #1
Bridget
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@PubEngys: Learn 2 Play

This debate has stormed since the beginning. Is the Engineer balanced? Is the Sentry gun balanced. Do we know the answer? Yes we do. The answer is no, they're not balanced. Is that a problem? No, it's not. In fact, it's supposed to be that way. Orly? Yarly.

I finally understand the Engineer. Perhaps it took too long, but I finally do. Let me explain it to you guys. Let's think about this, ok? In Team Fortress 2, the Engineer is a fucking joke. He only has a shotgun and a wrench, and dies unbelieveably quickly. To counter this, his sentry gun is very powerful and very strong.

Now look at how Fortress Forever has balanced the Engineer. He is capable of dealing good damage, but can not hold his own. Look at his sentry gun, capable of dealing damage, but not able to hold its own. Hm? So how the fuck do you defend? If you're both so goddamn weak, how? It's impossible. NO IT'S NOT. HERE'S WHY.

Imagine five Engineers. In the current pub setting, they build five guns. They sit behind these guns, and whack them over and over and over. Essentially, only five units are playing defense; the guns. The Engineers are out of play, doing it wrong. Let's imagine five Medics storm the place. These Medics have to deal with 5 points of defense. The guns. A few nades, you're both dead. You're not a threat, because you're busy, and will be indirectly disposed of as they get rid of the sentry guns. No problemo!

Now imagine those five Engineers build five guns, but they don't noob it out behind their guns. Instead, they stand guard with their shotguns and grenades. Do you get it now? Those five medics have to deal with 10 POINTS OF DEFENSE. THE ENGINEERS AND THE GUNS. THE DEFENSE HAS FUCKING DOUBLED. OMFG. YOU SEE NOW? THE TRUTH.

THE MEDICS MUST DECIDE WHO IS A BIGGER THREAT. YOU OR YOUR GUN. IF YOU DIE, YOUR SENTRY FINISHES THEM OFF. IF YOUR SENTRY IS DESTROYED, YOU FINISH THEM OFF. In rare cases, both of you die, but this is again rare if you play correctly. You break the enemy by making him decide on the spot. You sever his expectations. An enemy taking fire from multiple directions and multiple targets is in a worse situation than one taking fire from a single direction and a single target. DON'T YOU GET IT? HOLY FUCK. I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT.

The sentry gun is not strong because it's not supposed to hold its own. You're not strong because you're not supposed to hold your own. How do you defend then? By WORKING IN HARMONY WITH YOUR SENTRY GUN. You work at 50%, the sentry gun works at 50%. Together, you work at 100%. YOU SUPPORT IT. IT SUPPORTS YOU. NEITHER OF YOU WORK SOLO. YOU ARE BEST FRIENDS. TOGETHER, YOU ARE UNSTOPPABLE. End of story, now you know how to play Engineer, the debate is over.

Conclusion?

THE ENGINEER AND HIS SENTRY GUN?
PERFECTLY BALANCED.

/thread, /debate, /discussion, /confusion, /etc
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Old 09-04-2009, 06:57 AM   #2
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The correct way to play engi is actually far more ambiguous, but sure. The ultimate goal is to both do damage and support your gun. How you choose to do that is up to you (teammates and communication can help tremendously).
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Old 09-04-2009, 07:01 AM   #3
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A simple "Yes, Bridget, You're correct. I bow before your superior knowledge." would have done, but ok, Squeek.
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Old 09-04-2009, 07:52 AM   #4
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Nailed that spot on, Bridget.
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:40 AM   #5
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I'm amazed that people are still only just realising this
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Old 09-04-2009, 11:19 AM   #6
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I'm amazed that people are still only just realising this
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:21 PM   #7
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haha wow. nice read.

Protip - If someone destroys your SG, build it in another area that is just as or almost as effective.
Have a dispenser in your base somewhere that isn't easily seen by the enemy offense, but still relatively close to your SG, then dismantle your SG in between offensive attacks on your base and change it's location, using your dispenser and any nearby bags to get it up to level 3 again.

If you can do this quickly enough, their grenades that they pretime will be ineffective and will likely end up with them dying.
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:28 PM   #8
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I think the best way for the engineer to be useful is to be good at shielding himself from grenades with use of the sg while healing the sg. A little engineer with an EMP primed is just gonna get ignored and then the unprotected sg will be taken down left for the remaining offy to kill demo/grab flag.
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Old 09-05-2009, 12:51 AM   #9
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im ok with the ng class atm, imo it just goes up too dam fast, u can build an sgs level 3 in 5 sec or so lolz.
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Old 09-05-2009, 04:39 PM   #10
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i like the engy were he is.. I thought most people played engy as Bridget described. I like the more leave your gun alone for awhile and kill them with emps and shotty before they get anywhere close to it of course all depending on the map
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Old 09-06-2009, 05:41 PM   #11
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A simple "Yes, Bridget, You're correct. I bow before your superior knowledge." would have done, but ok, Squeek.
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Old 09-09-2009, 03:57 PM   #12
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I never thought the debate existed. It was just a hand full of people that didn't get or like the concept.

BUT YEAH GOOD TO SEE YOU'VE GOT IT NOW BRIDGET GOOD JOB!
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:52 AM   #13
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The only problem I have with engis is when they come in masses in some pubs, but that is mostly because I'm not a good attacker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KubeDawg View Post
haha wow. nice read.

Protip - If someone destroys your SG, build it in another area that is just as or almost as effective.
Have a dispenser in your base somewhere that isn't easily seen by the enemy offense, but still relatively close to your SG, then dismantle your SG in between offensive attacks on your base and change it's location, using your dispenser and any nearby bags to get it up to level 3 again.

If you can do this quickly enough, their grenades that they pretime will be ineffective and will likely end up with them dying.
Thanks! I can really use that! First build dispenser then SG? Or vice versa?
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
haha wow. nice read.

Protip - If someone destroys your SG, build it in another area that is just as or almost as effective.
Have a dispenser in your base somewhere that isn't easily seen by the enemy offense, but still relatively close to your SG, then dismantle your SG in between offensive attacks on your base and change it's location, using your dispenser and any nearby bags to get it up to level 3 again.

If you can do this quickly enough, their grenades that they pretime will be ineffective and will likely end up with them dying.
HOLY FUCKING SHIT! i been after this holy grail of advice since i started ff. i've been playing ff ng for like 8 months now for teamfail and man I THOUGHT i was good but this is really going to change my game and take it to a whole new level. i had like NO FUCKING IDEA, my eyes are open... !!! THANKS SO MUCH.
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Old 09-14-2009, 07:10 PM   #15
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HOLY FUCKING SHIT! i been after this holy grail of advice since i started ff. i've been playing ff ng for like 8 months now for teamfail and man I THOUGHT i was good but this is really going to change my game and take it to a whole new level. i had like NO FUCKING IDEA, my eyes are open... !!! THANKS SO MUCH.
Read the title. Pub Engies.
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Old 09-17-2009, 02:38 PM   #16
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Don't forget about the Dispenser being a weapon also. Much death has ensued against ones I've built - great to be placed in unsuspecting areas, (though can really only be done once in any given place, as offy get wise to the tactic.)
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:31 AM   #17
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Sorry, but killing SG's in pubs are stupid, save for A/D. They are just going to rebuild it, your teammates won't take it down with you. So your post is a moot point
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