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Old 08-05-2009, 09:47 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Dr.Satan View Post
that's the exact reasoning for why I support this. I want to swing, I enjoy doing it, and I think it would be a nice change.
I think most people like to do both. Plus I like the idea of the "most rounded team" winning. If you're only good at D, that's technically only half the game.

And you don't have to play O. If you have 6 guys on your roster (and all 6 of them miraculously showed up to the match, you can play your D, and step out and let someone else play the O round.

There are maps I really enjoy playing offense on and others I like to play D on.

I can guarantee you there aren't many people out there that like the 5v5 format. 2 offense sucked, and 3 defenders sucked. I don't think people would have a problem with 7v7 but right now there's no way you could support it with our numbers. I personally would rather do an 8v8 league over 7v7 or 9v9. I like the idea of equal number of O and D.

There seems to be all this hype over 9v9, but when I think about it, the game would be just a spam fest. I can't even really think of too many maps out there atm that would comfortabley support 5 defenders.

Unless 9v9 was an AvD style league what maps can 5 defenders comfortabley play together on? Many of the medium sized maps would be complete hell to play in with those numbers.
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Old 08-06-2009, 04:54 AM   #22
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Im not saying there is hype but I am saying I miss the 9v9 league play. 8v8 was also just as much fun with 4d4o on each side and almost all maps where supportive of this.

Spam was fixed by ppl remaking the map with less nades available to fix choke maps etc.. depending on map of course. I agree there is no way for this too happen atm in FF.

However

5v5 always did really well before in TFC and was never a huge issue with people crying on the setup, infact I think more poeple took pride in being able to either Do both psoitions or just win with that setup. what I think is the huge issue is the attitudes gamers have developed over the years maybe I'm just too old fashioned.
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Old 08-06-2009, 07:21 AM   #23
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UGC ran an FF 5v5 league for 3 seasons. It wasn't really a popular format (but people did play it). Given that, though, the 4v4 league I tried to start ended up failing due to clan inactivity... so... yeah.
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Old 08-06-2009, 03:26 PM   #24
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UGC ran an FF 5v5 league for 3 seasons. It wasn't really a popular format (but people did play it). Given that, though, the 4v4 league I tried to start ended up failing due to clan inactivity... so... yeah.
If the 4v4 thing started before UGC 5v5 I think it'd be the one that had been done for 3 seasons.

I think most people saw how hard it was just to get people together 1 night out of the week, let alone 2.
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Old 08-06-2009, 03:29 PM   #25
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I honestly think that larger team sizes would create an influx of new players into the league and promote a healthier league enviroment for the following reasons:

1. No teams currently have enough active players to field the required amount of players.

This will cause teams to hit IRC, forums, and pubs to recruit current players, as well as inviting friends that are new to FF to play for their team.

A positive side effect, is that the clan community would likely relocate from the pickup channel to the public servers in an effort to impress and recruit members with promise. This would not only help populate the public servers, but would bring our two segregated communities together.

2. A league with teams of this size has not been successful, partly due to fear of not having enough teams or players to complete. People not signing up, because they don't think others will sign up is self-actualizing failure. If you build it, they will come.

3. Newer players would be able to shore up the ranks of the defense for most teams, as when they are not required to play offense, there's a complete skillset that is not REQUIRED in order to join a team and play.

A positive side effect would be an increase in pickup activity, as newer players will undoubtedly be instructed to PLAY MORE! And pickups provide the level of training required to hone the skills of a player in a reasonable amount of time. This is the place for the 4vv4 "practice" that everyone is so fond of.

I understand the objections raised to this idea, and they all stem from the issue i raised in my previous post. Developers, mappers, players, we're all guilty, are thinking of the current playerbase as opposed to where we want to go.

More players = more action = more footage = more promotion.
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Old 08-06-2009, 05:01 PM   #26
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stuff.
no...just no;
it would be wonderful if all of that actually happened, but it doesn't and won't
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Old 08-06-2009, 08:01 PM   #27
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thats amazing, TFC survived on 9v9 for many years.. must be a new thing to get people who wish to compete to show up?
Well, the majority of people played in 5v and 7v. 9v had fewer teams and fewer people by a long shot.

But no, it's more along the lines of ringers not being allowed as often as they used to be.
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Old 08-06-2009, 08:47 PM   #28
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All I ever see is "no" or "can'ts" out of people, it's really depressing because those same people bitch about everything.

YOU MAKE THE GAME

you want more SHOOT FOR BETTER GOALS, stop short changing everything because you "think" it cannot work. More solid effort from everyone would prolly work but I guess this "community" if you wanna even call it one is so fucking sad and depressed on how horrible everything will be that they cannot even bring themselves to get goals for a much larger picture.

I will continue to do my scrims of larger size 8v8, and if by chance 5v5 league happens MY team of players will be there because we are ... wait for it... big word here..

DEDICATED.

I think some of the people who are in charge or at least in positions of value in this community have the worst attitudes when it comes to trying new things or just being positive. I never worked for a company and sat in a room and heard every person say nothing but "can't" or "no" if they did the company would fold up. You have to keep trying and pushing for a bigger picture if you don't your company or "community" will sooner or later fold up and be asking for a fucking bail out.
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Old 08-06-2009, 08:59 PM   #29
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You came a bit late. We tried things. They failed. Maybe I shouldn't use the plural, though. I tried things. They failed (2v2/4v4/sniper leagues).

It takes more than one team of players to be dedicated. The FF.PL 4v4 league failed because, with the exception of a few clans, no one chose to play their matches every week.

EDIT: Why don't you try setting up a 9v9/8v8 league? You're in the "community", why not be the leader in this operation?
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Old 08-06-2009, 09:03 PM   #30
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I'm curious. Did you even participate in any of the 3 seasons UGC ran in the 5v5 league? You sound like someone who can spout off all sorts of theroetical possibilities with no actual experience on the subject

These people saying what works and what doesn't work, have already invested 3 full seasons in trying to get things to work, inside and outside of the UGC 5v5 league.

It was very obvious through the course of the 3 full seasons how commitment dwindled considerabley, and how it was a constant struggle just to get people to show up for a single night a week. There were many factors involved in it finally being shutdown, and the largest one being that probably over half of the clanning community just stopped playing.

Even the pickup community although we've seen a few new players, those few haven't even come close to replacing the numbers that have left. We're literally playing with the same 15 people over and over.
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Old 08-06-2009, 10:51 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonoXideAtWork View Post
I honestly think that larger team sizes would create an influx of new players into the league and promote a healthier league enviroment for the following reasons:

1. No teams currently have enough active players to field the required amount of players.

This will cause teams to hit IRC, forums, and pubs to recruit current players, as well as inviting friends that are new to FF to play for their team.

A positive side effect, is that the clan community would likely relocate from the pickup channel to the public servers in an effort to impress and recruit members with promise. This would not only help populate the public servers, but would bring our two segregated communities together.

2. A league with teams of this size has not been successful, partly due to fear of not having enough teams or players to complete. People not signing up, because they don't think others will sign up is self-actualizing failure. If you build it, they will come.

3. Newer players would be able to shore up the ranks of the defense for most teams, as when they are not required to play offense, there's a complete skillset that is not REQUIRED in order to join a team and play.

A positive side effect would be an increase in pickup activity, as newer players will undoubtedly be instructed to PLAY MORE! And pickups provide the level of training required to hone the skills of a player in a reasonable amount of time. This is the place for the 4vv4 "practice" that everyone is so fond of.

I understand the objections raised to this idea, and they all stem from the issue i raised in my previous post. Developers, mappers, players, we're all guilty, are thinking of the current playerbase as opposed to where we want to go.

More players = more action = more footage = more promotion.
i agree.. we do have a segregated community. any leagues are better than no leagues and the idea of a 8v8 or 9v9 is definitely worth a shot. im in
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Old 08-06-2009, 11:01 PM   #32
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Quote:
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i agree.. we do have a segregated community. any leagues are better than no leagues and the idea of a 8v8 or 9v9 is definitely worth a shot. im in
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@ squeek.
<3

Just sayin.

also: @
Quote:
Originally Posted by squeek
Why don't you try setting up a 9v9/8v8 league?
I like where your head is at.

@ War.

Hypothetically, how many could you field weekly?

@ dr. satan

Sponsored prizes then?

http://www.nvidia.com/content/sponso...ponsorship.asp

http://www.bawlstyle.com/

and a slew of others:
http://www.lanpartyeh.com/host/sponsor

contacting cybercafes (http://www.igames.org/#) is a good way to find locations for the tournament to be held. Since Fortress-Forever has international appeal, an on location tournament tour would be the best idea, so teams that wanted to compete could do so in a location relatively near to them. A way to mitigate costs is to contact the centers directly that have steam games (many that signed on initially have since opted out of the program due to the increase in the already outrageous monthly invoice.) and offer them the ability to host the tournament at their location and collect a registration fee directly, in exchange for on site admin by their staff. We get a place to play, and they get multiple teams' registration fees and concession.

An online tournament could work as well, but in order to have good response from the sponsors, we would really need to have everything together.

We'd need coverage on all the major gaming news sites, with sponsor product placement featured very prominently on or in any images for the press kit. Also, a web co-op with a sponsor could net very large prize amounts. The key is, sponsors tend to be a little more cautious around online events because they tend to require a lot of physical proof in order to retain sponsorship for future events. We'd probably need to set up an arrangement along the lines of : x amount of dollars in product for every Y teams or Z players. This would insure that the sponsors could control their ROI, which is especially important after the fall of the CAL.

Here are leagues some leagues that are successful currently:

http://www.ggl.com
http://www.mlgpro.com

Notice, the prominent ad space.

Next, we'd need a way to get news of what this is, who we are, and what we're doing, into the hands of every former and current player of fortress games.

The next thing is getting the word out to people who may have not ever played a fortress game before.

Contrary to the opinions of most people critical of league play, I believe the devs are actively making steps to gain more new players in the development and refinement of features.

(@ all (but most know better)please do not respond about your ideas on features, you've already said it somewhere before, and if not, this is not the proper place for it, find it and do so there.)

Movies - Our filmmakers are very very talented. We need to release as many movies as possible and support the ones that get released. If you saw a new movie about this game, link it to someone that hasn't seen it, comment on the post here on the forums with PROPS AND CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. These are the best tools we have for getting players to "switch brands" from any other game to FF.
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Old 08-07-2009, 12:41 AM   #33
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I can field a roster of 10 or more weekly so my options are always open.
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Old 08-07-2009, 12:48 AM   #34
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Plp that will join the eventual league are the ones who add in pickups at least in eu, sayng that , its always 4 v4 format so i dont see any reason for other figures.
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Old 08-07-2009, 02:14 AM   #35
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Awesome. All teams that wish to participate in 9v9, recruit players.

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Old 08-07-2009, 04:35 AM   #36
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just restart a 4v4/5v5 league - 8v8/9v9, no thanks

fellas ready whenever something starts up
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Old 08-07-2009, 05:30 AM   #37
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there have been 2 7v7 leagues started since the game has been released. neither of them lasted more than 2 or 3 weeks. a 9v9 league would have the same fate.

squeeks 4v4 league was the most fun to play, but only 3 or 4 clans (one half of the fellas, the other half of the fellas, e0, and the stachers) played their matches, and it got to be pretty boring playing the same teams every week.
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Old 08-07-2009, 05:56 AM   #38
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squeeks 4v4 league was the most fun to play, but only 3 or 4 clans (one half of the fellas, the other half of the fellas, e0, and the stachers) played their matches, and it got to be pretty boring playing the same teams every week.
That, and then e0 and one half of the fellas didn't play season 2...

2 teams! YEAH.
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Old 08-07-2009, 07:03 AM   #39
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I was gone during season 2 so yeah... I kept it together mostly
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Old 08-07-2009, 07:26 PM   #40
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I miss the 2v2 league :[
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