Question about Well

o_balls · 09-02-2006, 04:31 AM

http://www.fortress-forever.com/?a=media&id=ff_well_21

As you can quite clearly see in that screenshot, the attic and entrance to RR are not in line as it is in TFC atm making it impossible to run around the corner and conc up there in one swift move.

My main question is why? Obviously eat knows that the RR to attic conc is a very popular one and can usually be the make or break point for offy, so why has he decided to take it out? Its hard to say without actually playing it myself, but from what i can see it looks like its gonna be even more defense friendly than it currently is in TFC

.

Would the dev team care to give some insight as to how it plays and hopefully prove me completely wrong? I just hope that it'll will no longer be a bastard to offy on.

o_donny · 09-02-2006, 06:25 AM

You call multiple enterances to the base + water enterance a defense friendly? Like the 1 door werent hard to protect even if you had 2 SGs HWguy and a demo there.

o_player · 09-02-2006, 09:29 AM

I too share your concerns, Balls. I guess, unless we get an explanation, we will just have to wait until the release of Fortress Forever.

Oh, and Donny, Well is very defense friendly and if the front door consisted of what you have suggested, it would be practically impossible to pass the front door stage to reach the ramp room; and the water route is a risky strategy that involves mostly death to the offence unless the HW has been weaked, or is in the flag room helping out with the defence there.

o_dr zoidberg · 09-02-2006, 10:17 AM

they made more entrances http://www.fortress-forever.com/?a=media&id=ff_well_11

o_player · 09-02-2006, 10:30 AM

Those are not entrances into the base... They are entrances leading to the upper-most part of the base ie. the roof. That is where all the sniping/sentry gun-building happens on public servers.

Oh yay! No more enemy repsawns on the roof now teleporters have been abandoned :P

EDIT: Unless half way up those ladders/lifts to the roof is a door that allows you to enter the battelments.

o_dr zoidberg · 09-02-2006, 10:37 AM

yeah... and you've obviously never played well.

o_doom · 09-02-2006, 01:06 PM

all i can say is when everyone plays FF's Well for the first time it'll be interesting seeing people exploring and such. or in other words "well will be different yet the same"

o_nodnarb · 09-02-2006, 03:07 PM

exactly, I can't wait for FF

o_balls · 09-02-2006, 03:29 PM

I cant see how anyone could disagree that its not defense friendly. We're talking clan matches here, and the usual setup is a soldier at each side of FD, SG and soldier in FR and a HW protecting the water tunnel FR side so he can help out with any incomings T.

One possiblity in that pic is that you'll be able to use a soldier RR on his own, along with the rest of the def allowing for 4 offy, which would obviously speed things up on the offy side. Just hope thats what eat has intended!

PHISH · 09-02-2006, 04:27 PM

For one the side respawns are slightly farther back, and with the entrance to rr change it may make putting a soldier in the ramp room and 1 at the FD a better option.

It was always played 9v9 in north america and the scores were still generally 2-0 1-0 (with 4 offense) at the top level. How anyone capped 5/3 is beyond me.

o_luminous · 09-02-2006, 04:49 PM

it does look like it has been slightly influenced by the rr styling of raiden, which would be quite cool

Circuitous · 09-02-2006, 05:15 PM

Uh... they're not in line? It looks like it's right over it, except you've got that walkway blocking your view.

Here's a better shot: http://www.fortress-forever.com/?a=media&id=ff_well_7

o_darksoul · 09-02-2006, 05:36 PM

incorrect

o_balls · 09-02-2006, 06:09 PM

Yeah, its not in line still.. :P

Crappy picture, but as you can see from there you can walk straight out of resup and be in line with the attic. In the FF_well version the attic is off center. One thing i did notice though is that huge hole that leads up onto the upper ledge (that takes you to balc). Could do some interesting moves with that i supoose...

o_player · 09-02-2006, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Zoidberg

yeah... and you've obviously never played well.

I believe I have.

Also, when I said this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Player

Those are not entrances into the base... They are entrances leading to the upper-most part of the base ie. the roof.

I was talking about the circled entrances here as I guessed that you were speaking of them.

o_yoda891 · 09-02-2006, 09:22 PM

Woah, I just typed up a big paragraph about some of the architecture only to go look at the picture I wanted and find that the RR had been changed. In the first picture in this thread you can see that the circle cut-out in the RR is gone, and I had assumed that you could go up that and end up on the roof. But I guess that was scraped, or that was never being done and the circle got in the way.

But anyway, Eat has done so much with the map and it's for the better. He probably expected complaints from small things like this, but what he has done with the map(too many things to list, go through all the pictures and think strategically and you'll see quite a few things that are possible now) is quite amazing.

hehe, I just noticed the nail grenade in the first pic!

Circuitous · 09-03-2006, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balls

Crappy picture, but as you can see from there you can walk straight out of resup and be in line with the attic. In the FF_well version the attic is off center. One thing i did notice though is that huge hole that leads up onto the upper ledge (that takes you to balc). Could do some interesting moves with that i supoose...

I took "entrance to the RR" to somehow mean "entrance to the FR" because nothing else clicked in my head. My mistake.

o_rizzo · 09-03-2006, 10:09 AM

I agree 100% with ballz, been thinking this since i saw the screenshot. But hey, anyone can still make FF_oldskoolwell or something like that

o_afx · 09-03-2006, 01:57 PM

That or wait and see how the map actually plays before making judgements, dont forget this isnt tf:source, youve got whatever ff concs are like, trimping too....that plus the adjusted resups, will probably result in ff_well playing quite unlike its tfc counterpart.

o_player · 09-03-2006, 03:12 PM

Trimping will make the RR in Well an enjoyable and different experience. Instead of rampsliding and catching the lip of the ramp to send you into the attic, a simple trimp will be needed. Oooo, the possibilities. Concing from the end of the T to the slope exiting the water for another trimp up to the FR platforms.

Time to wait

09-02-2006, 04:31 AM	#1
o_balls Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Question about Well http://www.fortress-forever.com/?a=media&id=ff_well_21 As you can quite clearly see in that screenshot, the attic and entrance to RR are not in line as it is in TFC atm making it impossible to run around the corner and conc up there in one swift move. My main question is why? Obviously eat knows that the RR to attic conc is a very popular one and can usually be the make or break point for offy, so why has he decided to take it out? Its hard to say without actually playing it myself, but from what i can see it looks like its gonna be even more defense friendly than it currently is in TFC . Would the dev team care to give some insight as to how it plays and hopefully prove me completely wrong? I just hope that it'll will no longer be a bastard to offy on.

09-02-2006, 10:30 AM	#5
o_player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Europe Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Those are not entrances into the base... They are entrances leading to the upper-most part of the base ie. the roof. That is where all the sniping/sentry gun-building happens on public servers. Oh yay! No more enemy repsawns on the roof now teleporters have been abandoned :P EDIT: Unless half way up those ladders/lifts to the roof is a door that allows you to enter the battelments. Last edited by o_player; 09-02-2006 at 10:37 AM.

09-02-2006, 05:15 PM	#12
Circuitous Useless Retired FF Staff Join Date: Jun 2005 Class/Position: D Soldier, O Scout Gametype: AvD Posts Rated Helpful 9 Times	Uh... they're not in line? It looks like it's right over it, except you've got that walkway blocking your view. Here's a better shot: http://www.fortress-forever.com/?a=media&id=ff_well_7 __________________ Look at all those dead links. Last edited by Circuitous; 09-02-2006 at 05:20 PM.

09-02-2006, 06:25 AM	#2
o_donny Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Finland Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	You call multiple enterances to the base + water enterance a defense friendly? Like the 1 door werent hard to protect even if you had 2 SGs HWguy and a demo there.

09-02-2006, 09:29 AM	#3
o_player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Europe Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I too share your concerns, Balls. I guess, unless we get an explanation, we will just have to wait until the release of Fortress Forever. Oh, and Donny, Well is very defense friendly and if the front door consisted of what you have suggested, it would be practically impossible to pass the front door stage to reach the ramp room; and the water route is a risky strategy that involves mostly death to the offence unless the HW has been weaked, or is in the flag room helping out with the defence there.

09-02-2006, 10:17 AM	#4
o_dr zoidberg Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Sweden Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	they made more entrances http://www.fortress-forever.com/?a=media&id=ff_well_11

09-02-2006, 10:37 AM	#6
o_dr zoidberg Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Sweden Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	yeah... and you've obviously never played well.

09-02-2006, 01:06 PM	#7
o_doom Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	all i can say is when everyone plays FF's Well for the first time it'll be interesting seeing people exploring and such. or in other words "well will be different yet the same"

09-02-2006, 03:07 PM	#8
o_nodnarb Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Austin, Texas Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	exactly, I can't wait for FF

09-02-2006, 03:29 PM	#9
o_balls Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I cant see how anyone could disagree that its not defense friendly. We're talking clan matches here, and the usual setup is a soldier at each side of FD, SG and soldier in FR and a HW protecting the water tunnel FR side so he can help out with any incomings T. One possiblity in that pic is that you'll be able to use a soldier RR on his own, along with the rest of the def allowing for 4 offy, which would obviously speed things up on the offy side. Just hope thats what eat has intended!

09-02-2006, 04:27 PM	#10
PHISH Retired FF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: cow college Posts Rated Helpful 13 Times	For one the side respawns are slightly farther back, and with the entrance to rr change it may make putting a soldier in the ramp room and 1 at the FD a better option. It was always played 9v9 in north america and the scores were still generally 2-0 1-0 (with 4 offense) at the top level. How anyone capped 5/3 is beyond me.

09-02-2006, 04:49 PM	#11
o_luminous Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	it does look like it has been slightly influenced by the rr styling of raiden, which would be quite cool

09-02-2006, 05:36 PM	#13
o_darksoul Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: kidderminster, uk Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	incorrect

09-02-2006, 06:09 PM	#14
o_balls Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Yeah, its not in line still.. :P Crappy picture, but as you can see from there you can walk straight out of resup and be in line with the attic. In the FF_well version the attic is off center. One thing i did notice though is that huge hole that leads up onto the upper ledge (that takes you to balc). Could do some interesting moves with that i supoose...

09-02-2006, 09:22 PM	#16
o_yoda891 Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Puyallup, Washington Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Woah, I just typed up a big paragraph about some of the architecture only to go look at the picture I wanted and find that the RR had been changed. In the first picture in this thread you can see that the circle cut-out in the RR is gone, and I had assumed that you could go up that and end up on the roof. But I guess that was scraped, or that was never being done and the circle got in the way. But anyway, Eat has done so much with the map and it's for the better. He probably expected complaints from small things like this, but what he has done with the map(too many things to list, go through all the pictures and think strategically and you'll see quite a few things that are possible now) is quite amazing. hehe, I just noticed the nail grenade in the first pic!

09-03-2006, 10:09 AM	#18
o_rizzo Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I agree 100% with ballz, been thinking this since i saw the screenshot. But hey, anyone can still make FF_oldskoolwell or something like that

09-03-2006, 01:57 PM	#19
o_afx Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Walsall,UK Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	That or wait and see how the map actually plays before making judgements, dont forget this isnt tf:source, youve got whatever ff concs are like, trimping too....that plus the adjusted resups, will probably result in ff_well playing quite unlike its tfc counterpart.

09-03-2006, 03:12 PM	#20
o_player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Europe Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Trimping will make the RR in Well an enjoyable and different experience. Instead of rampsliding and catching the lip of the ramp to send you into the attic, a simple trimp will be needed. Oooo, the possibilities. Concing from the end of the T to the slope exiting the water for another trimp up to the FR platforms. Time to wait

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