Stats

[Private_Joker]

I have a remark: I want to speak against personal stats admin mods for Fortress Forever. I've just played on a server that showed personal stats, the first I've seen in all the time I've played FF, and I decided to disapprove publicly. The server was fine and fun, and nothing is wrong at all yet, but I figure that starting the discussion sooner is better.

I believe that any personal stats mod, in any game, is the most efficient way to defeat cooperation and teamwork. The more concerned players are with themselves, the less they are concerned with their team. I saw it happen with Counter-Strike, and I've never been more disgusted at how it turned out. Far too many Counter-Strike players focus only on getting kills to heighten their rank, and ignore the the rest of the elements that bring real depth to the game. I want that to not happen to Fortress. If I see someone on my team concerned with their rank, I'll probably tell them to go to the other team. If I see arrogance from some player about their rank, I'll probably leave the server. Fortress is not about arrogance--there's no "I" in "team", and there's no "/rank" in "Team Fortress".

-Joker

[Innoc]

I agree in part. I know that I generally don't care about stats one way or the other. My focus is the flag. If I am on D then my job is to slow or stop the enemy O from touching or moving the flag while in our base and within my area of responsibility. If I am on O...my job is to help the fast movers get in and out. I go in expecting to die...that's my job. Sometimes I will move the flag but I prefer supporting O.

Stats might very well shift the efforts of my teammates to try to be Armies of 1...and that's not at all good for teamplay.

[Private_Joker]

Thanks Innoc, that's exactly what I say. Dying for the flag cap is one of the most important accomplishments of an offensive player, whether it means DMing a Solly to distract him from your team's carrier, or a Medic diving into the shit to heal up your team's D-breaker. Personal stats have absoloutely no place there.

-Joker

[squeek.]

I'd like to see personal stats that are ONLY personal. Just a way to check how YOU play or YOUR trends without the immediate possibility of "showing it off" to your goons.

Something like the Blarghalyzer, but maybe with some more advanced stats that wouldn't be available from a log parser (some things I'd like to see would be my average speed, average in-air time, stuff like that).

[Skanky Butterpuss]

agree. blarghalyzer would be badass for FF.

[zE]

Originally Posted by squeek.

I'd like to see personal stats that are ONLY personal. Just a way to check how YOU play or YOUR trends without the immediate possibility of "showing it off" to your goons.

+ 1!

[pF]

Agree with Joker and Innoc.. this needs to be implemented very carefully..

[Ihmhi]

I'd tend to agree, but you'll still have the problem of statwhoring - it will just take away bragging rights (for the most part). Having personal stats made public goes a long way towards community blah blah web 2.0 blah cocks blah blah.

[Circuitous]

Fact is, K-D Ratio is only relevant for defenders, and even then, not really...

I wonder if it would be possible to use Lua to control what gets counted as stats? For example, you're playing DM_Squeek, and it's in airshot mode.

So, DM_Squeek.lua tells our version of blarghalyzer a few things:

• Airshot Kills
• Longest airshot combo
• Airshot hits
• Deaths
• Time spent in air
• Airtime/Death ratio
• Airshots gotten while in midair

Whereas a map like Hunted would be more concerned with:

• time spent near hunted as BG
• time spent as hunted
• points gained as hunted
• average escapes/minute as hunted
• times killed hunted
• times killed hunted with 3+ bodyguards nearby
• times backstabbed hunted
• times tranq'd hunted

etc.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by Circuitous

Fact is, K-D Ratio is only relevant for defenders, and even then, not really...

I wonder if it would be possible to use Lua to control what gets counted as stats? For example, you're playing DM_Squeek, and it's in airshot mode.

So, DM_Squeek.lua tells our version of blarghalyzer a few things:

• Airshot Kills
• Longest airshot combo
• Airshot hits
• Deaths
• Time spent in air
• Airtime/Death ratio
• Airshots gotten while in midair

Whereas a map like Hunted would be more concerned with:

• time spent near hunted as BG
• time spent as hunted
• points gained as hunted
• average escapes/minute as hunted
• times killed hunted
• times killed hunted with 3+ bodyguards nearby
• times backstabbed hunted
• times tranq'd hunted

etc.

That'd be the ultimate.

[$h4m3]

And ultimately impossible to design in your spare time. I think at least.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by $h4m3

And ultimately impossible to design in your spare time. I think at least.

Thanks for the encouragement. But seriously, I don't think it would be impossible... if lua was just able to output events for a stats logger, it would essentially be done (except for the parser). Just put standard events into the base_.lua's, and then let maps override them to get better functionality. In dm_squeek it would only take added a couple lines of LogStat( "Number of Airshots", airshots[playerid] + 1 ) or whatever and it'd be done.

Airtime would be quite a bit harder.

[Circuitous]

If we had some of the more capable Lua coders on the team handle the basic demands in a base_statcalc.lua (which would be linked to from all the base_gameplay Luas, so mappers wouldn't have to change anything except choosing which they wanna use), we could probably have this in the next patch... a parser would be a snap from there.

[Iggy]

I like to view my stats, but really for personal achievements...and not in game. I don't brag about kill streaks, or any of that kind of shit.

Although, I am proud of a personal accomplishment last year on TFC: I had a kick-ass killstreak of incomming O players....wielding nothing more than a crowbar. No flags were lost during this streak. It was absolutely comical!
That was playing as Solly.

[shadow]

tbh most people like stats and if it keeps people playing and gives them something to shoot for... add it. but dont add the ranking system that dystopia has (where it shows everyone's global rank on your scoreboard).

ff should also have some achievements the way tf2 does. while it may seem like a cheap way to prolong the life of a game, it think achievements provide new players something to work towards while they learn the game. otherwise they load up ff, dm for an hour or two and quit forever.

in this matter, copy tf2!

[pF]

Hmm.. maybe customisable models or something, but that should be it imo. unlockable content with an impact on the gameplay = no..

[Firefox11]

D=?

He was talking about things like:
Jedi Knight: Kill 3 enemies in one life as Scout with the crowbar.

Not new weapons after doing some ridiculously stupid non team helping action.

[fireb0rn]

Originally Posted by shadow

ff should also have some achievements the way tf2 does. while it may seem like a cheap way to prolong the life of a game, it think achievements provide new players something to work towards while they learn the game. otherwise they load up ff, dm for an hour or two and quit forever.

in this matter, copy tf2!

meh, can't see this being beneficial really. the only things that would make sense are killing a flag carrier, taking down security, or capping a flag and maybe a few others. anything else would probably just encourage DMing, which is giving a false impression of the game.

[פֿяαιп βαмαgεפ]

Originally Posted by Firefox11

D=?

He was talking about things like:
Jedi Knight: Kill 3 enemies in one life as Scout with the crowbar.

Not new weapons after doing some ridiculously stupid non team helping action.

Let's not degenerate FF to TF2, acchievements suck in online games, they bring nothing but frustration to other players, are exploitable in ways you can't even imagine, but some 12 yo old noob can, attract the wrong kind of people and so on.

I say: no, unless it has something to do with the TEAM, not yourself.

[Hammock]

I sat here thinking of cool things that could be implimented for team based accomplishments. Like for every 5 unanswered caps the capping team gets 10 seconds of quad+invincibility... things by that nature.

But everytime I came up with something that effected the game play, I could come up with a counter reason as to why it would be a bad idea. What might work nice in full pubs may not work good with low numbers OvD, or vice versa. Being able to turn it on and off would probably just confuse people.

The only accomplishments I could think of that would work are visual ones, like glimmers, or glowing or even just some sound effects.