Lets not have server restrictions upon release

[Fjorn]

I've always felt that swearing is offensive, its the point of swearing

So if we're banning other offensive things, like rasism, why is it wrong to ban swearing, yet not wrong to ban something some people find equally offensive, rasism?

[nex nicholai]

We might as well get some sunnis and shiites on the board and expect them to come to an agreement. Its not going to happen, just like a productive discussion about bhop will never appear on any message board.

Its a shame, because bhoppers have no way of conveying how much depth it adds to the game. Those against also have a completely valid point if they dont want to play the game that way. It pretty much becomes a completely different game once you master air control. Since non-bhoppers simply cant and wont understand it, I think that segregation is the best solution.

Maybe having the option of no bhop TF2 vs bhop in FF will help keep the two jihad factions apart. In keeping with that, Scuzzy, I do feel that a "NO BHOP" in the title of your server would help alleviate the shock of guys getting kicked/banned for doing something completely natural to them. I understand that its in the MOTD, but a rule that changes the game that much for some players should be in the title IMO.

Also, rather than banning players for bhop (which always leads to drama), have you considered just putting a low cap on it? We at OWOL have a 150 cap on our servers and Im sure the same plugin could be used to completely prevent bhop without the need to slay/kick/ban anyone. Just a thought.

Anyhoo, death to the infidels blah blah blah...

[ekiM]

Originally Posted by Fjorn

TFC is the only fortress mod where a good portion of the community actually think bhopping is a bad thing...

Thats always confused me really, every other fortress mods go "buhhh....." at the idea of no bhop, but TFC, you get people that go 'sure, lets do this!'

You even have people making plugins to do so


Its always bewildered me, as to why an integral part of TF is seen as unwanted by TFC
It does help explain why QTF sees TFC as the bastard offspring of TF however

Probably because TFC was the only TF mod ever to attract a large casual following.

[Sabre]

BH (and other tricks) make TFC the game it is, i fail to see how people have enjoyed the game for such a long time without these aspects of the game, without all the little extras to learn along the way the game would have been plain boring. Oh and swearing is nothing like racism, racism is always diected at an individual/group of people causing offence, swearing is not, once it's directed at someone it becomes abuse and this i agreed, should be punished.

[mervaka]

Originally Posted by Mulchman MM

worrying about language is just retarded. Seriously, there's a way to mute players. If "fuck" (or in dospacs case "newb") makes you uncomfortable or blush then maybe you should just step away from the computer.

Bots & stupid rules are the death of TFC.

Yeah, you're paying for the server but if no one's there because the rules are retarded then you're going to have lots of fun paying for an empty server. (Sure, go ahead and let me know just how many regulars play there on a daily basis.)

too fucking right. see what i did there?

fuck yeah, its fucking called casual swearing for fuck sake. its not fucking directed at anyone, its just fucking casual fucking use of the fucking word.

[SmellyCat]

The anti-bunnyhop crew cannot be argued with. I thought this was a lesson learned many moons ago.

[Scuzzy]

Originally Posted by Sabre

Oh and swearing is nothing like racism, racism is always diected at an individual/group of people causing offence, swearing is not, once it's directed at someone it becomes abuse and this i agreed, should be punished.

Well, let's see how that would be applied. If your server tells people that swearing is ok as long as it isn't directed towards anyone then what is the difference between these two statements:

1) This map is a fucked up map.
2) This map is a nigger-like map that smells like homosexual sex with a 12 year old boy.

Both statements refer to the map, not to an individual. Under your rules the both of these would be acceptable, correct? That aside, why split hairs on what speech is offensive and what speech isn't offensive?

Originally Posted by ikiM

Bunnyhopping and air control require skill and add a lot of depth to gameplay. The bug exploits you mention only require knowledge and don't add anything good to the game.

So now you want to get into a semantic argument of which exploits "add good things" to the game? No thanks. Again, as it comes down to it bhopping is a matter of opinion.

I think only one person has had the maturity to say "It's your server and I can understand why you wouldn't want it, even though I like to bhop." and respect our decision WITHOUT throwing in some dig about how crappy our server must be, or how we won't have players, or how "real" players hate servers like ours. Do you see how immature that makes you look? Do you really think we sit back and say, "Shit guys, according to that awesome player Sabre our server is thought of as sad, depressing, and full of poor players because we don't like bhop! What do we do?!?!" Well, we ignore you. We're not in school, we're not in college, we're way beyond the dire need to "be cool" or care what people think about us.

[GhOsT]

This horse has long been dead. Lets just let the poor thing be and move on.

[PsYcNeT]

Yeah I remember letting the cat out of the bag about a year ago when I stated something like:

"No swearing servers are to get rid of the idiots. The people left over probably still want to swear, but are smart enough to control it while playing. These are the people who are best to build a community around."

In summary, it has nothing to do with protecting children, or offensiveness, it's just a handy excuse to keep out the idiots and immature fucks.

PS Bhop is coded into the game, so it therefore is not an exploit. It was included for a reason (I mean, Valve even modified the bhop cap for christsakes, doesn't that show you they meant to have it in the game?)

[Dospac]

Wha I only said a dirty word once! Reply to everyone but me wahhhhh!

Point stands, you got some horrible admins!

[grg]

1) This map is a fucked up map.
2) This map is a nigger-like map that smells like homosexual sex with a 12 year old boy.

Ok, now you showed some arguments that almost made me laugh.

1. You are saying that you don't want racism, swearing etc on your server because decent people (including kids) play there. I would agree 100% with you there, if wasn't for the fact that on TFC you are KILLING PEOPLE. Do you take out the blood and gibs too? Well, I hope you do. Your beautiful and pure kids that should not learn the word "fuck" are killing each other with shotguns, rocket launchers, crowbars. People are flying everywhere because they're dying, they scream when they get hit. You get points for killing, which estimulate more killing from your children. Ok, your children shouldn't be learning racist words, or shouldn't see anything like "that was like having sex with 12 year old kid" or whatever like you said, I'm TOTALLY with you on this. But dude (or should I say, sir), swearing is a part of life, you can't deny that, specially when you're killing people around on an internet game.

2. About the exploits arguments. What the fuck. You're saying bhop is an exploit? I'm not going to quote everyone who said that EVERYTHING on TFC is an exploit; that's what make it the best game I've ever played. Hand Held conc is an exploit. Ramp Slide is an exploit. Rocket Jump is an exploit. So is bhop. What you said there, that getting speed by moving around on the air is not realistic, was totally lame. So you can hit your foot with a rocket, fly, and lose like 20% of your health (what's your health anyway, life doesn't have that). My point is, you're bringing "realism" (which to me, honestly, looks like an excuse for sucking at the game) to a totally NON-REALISTIC game. Yeah, it's your server, you do what you want. But on a game that never had a great ammount of popularity, a server like yours only make people (read: everyone outthere that feels like playing) not want to play anymore.

3. One last thing. You're acting like you're the old guy who has a lot of experience, and that some things you do, we just won't understand. I don't give a fuck to that. I'm 19 going to 20. I was (am, actually) leader of the best clan on Brazil (which sucked back in the days but we trained hard and got on top). I was for a long time admin of a league and a server. I made my clan's website and kept it online with my own money. I've played with some of the greatest players around ([MsA], cheese, wheaties, Nar, etc), even if I had like ping 180. So you can't just come here with a bunch of stupid arguments, and say like "well, you will never understand this". When it's totally the opposite. If you had experienced a little of the GOOD TFC, with clans, leagues, watching demos from the best players, playing gathers, etc, you would know what we are talking about.

Well, it's your server, you make the rules. But I am plenty sure that your server hasn't helped TFC at all. That's what pisses me off. One of the reasons because TFC died were the servers with nazi rules and filled with bots. I hope that will never happen on FF.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by grg

Well, it's your server, you make the rules. But I am plenty sure that your server hasn't helped TFC at all. That's what pisses me off. One of the reasons because TFC died were the servers with nazi rules and filled with bots. I hope that will never happen on FF.

And Godwin's law has been enforced! This thread can be locked now

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law

[ekiM]

Originally Posted by Scuzzy

So now you want to get into a semantic argument of which exploits "add good things" to the game? No thanks. Again, as it comes down to it bhopping is a matter of opinion.

No, I am not interested in discussing the merits of bunnyhoping with someone who hasn't experienced it after the game has existed for nearly a decade. They've obviously made thier minds up long ago, even though they've never tried bunnyhopping. How can you fairly judge what bhopping does for TFC if you've never experienced it yourself?

Anti-bhop sentiment comes pretty much exclusively from people who've never even tried to learn it because they're not interested in competitive play. On the other hand, virtually every player who actually spent a little bit of time and learned how to use a basic feature of the game engine (air acceleration) enjoys it and realises it adds a lot of depth to the movement of the game. Is it that hard to connect the dots here?

Originally Posted by Scuzzy

I think only one person has had the maturity to say "It's your server and I can understand why you wouldn't want it, even though I like to bhop." and respect our decision WITHOUT throwing in some dig about how crappy our server must be, or how we won't have players, or how "real" players hate servers like ours. Do you see how immature that makes you look? Do you really think we sit back and say, "Shit guys, according to that awesome player Sabre our server is thought of as sad, depressing, and full of poor players because we don't like bhop! What do we do?!?!" Well, we ignore you. We're not in school, we're not in college, we're way beyond the dire need to "be cool" or care what people think about us.

Seems to me that if you didn't care what people thought of you you wouldn't be so defensive when people voiced their opinions.

Originally Posted by grg

1. You are saying that you don't want racism, swearing etc on your server because decent people (including kids) play there. I would agree 100% with you there, if wasn't for the fact that on TFC you are KILLING PEOPLE. Do you take out the blood and gibs too? Well, I hope you do. Your beautiful and pure kids that should not learn the word "fuck" are killing each other with shotguns, rocket launchers, crowbars. People are flying everywhere because they're dying, they scream when they get hit. You get points for killing, which estimulate more killing from your children. Ok, your children shouldn't be learning racist words, or shouldn't see anything like "that was like having sex with 12 year old kid" or whatever like you said, I'm TOTALLY with you on this. But dude (or should I say, sir), swearing is a part of life, you can't deny that, specially when you're killing people around on an internet game.

You are not actually killing people when you kill people in TFC. You are actually swearing when you swear in TFC.

[grg]

You are not actually killing people when you kill people in TFC. You are actually swearing when you swear in TFC.

Yeah, true. I exageratted a bit I was trying to show that he wants "purity" to the children, but it's a game where you kill each other. Doesn't make much sense to me.

[Sh4x]

This thread is a fine thread. Keep it up ppl!

[Mulchman MM]

Yes, down with silly ruled servers!

[Afty]

server pings at over 150

[Sabre]

Originally Posted by Scuzzy

Well, let's see how that would be applied. If your server tells people that swearing is ok as long as it isn't directed towards anyone then what is the difference between these two statements:

1) This map is a fucked up map.
2) This map is a nigger-like map that smells like homosexual sex with a 12 year old boy.

What a ridiculous argument, using the word nigger-like as the equivalent to fucked up can only mean you are referring to black people in a derogatory manner therefore directing abuse at an individual or group of individuals. Number 1 has absolutely no derogatory reference to an individual or group.

And as i said, it is your server, play on it how you like, just realise that you're living in fear of change and progress of the game, and you really are missing out on some unique dimensions that make the game even better.

[Scuzzy]

Originally Posted by grg

Ok, now you showed some arguments that almost made me laugh.

1. You are saying that you don't want racism, swearing etc on your server because decent people (including kids) play there. I would agree 100% with you there, if wasn't for the fact that on TFC you are KILLING PEOPLE. Do you take out the blood and gibs too? Well, I hope you do.

Back the truck up son, I never said that. I believe my exact words were:

Originally Posted by scuzzy

I didn't say we protect the children from language, I said we try to protect them from pedophiles. We prefer to play with people that are more mature. Most of those people are ones who don't need to say "shit" or "fuck" or call people names in order to play. It's a trend we've found, nothing more nothing less. I am not saying that everyone who has scream "shitz ur pawned muthafucka!" every time they make a kill isn't a great player, they could be the best TFC player in the world, they just aren't someone we'd prefer to play with.

You're welcome to swear all you want, we encourage you to express yourself, we just don't want to hear it.

Originally Posted by grg

2. About the exploits arguments. What the fuck. You're saying bhop is an exploit?

No, I asked someone to explain the difference between the nail grenade and spy feign movement and bhopping.

Originally Posted by grg

But on a game that never had a great ammount of popularity, a server like yours only make people (read: everyone outthere that feels like playing) not want to play anymore.

I think that's over generalizing the entire TFC communities feelings a bit. Think of it this way. We have a 32 slots server. We have 55 clan members. There are what, hundreds of thousands of people who own steam-ids that could access TFC if they wanted too. For fun's sake let's say there's only 2000 people that still play TFC. How many people do we need to attract to have fun? How many people do WE need to find, out of that 2000 that like our rules and enjoy our conversation? Not that many, if ANY. Now, if just the mere existence of our server is such a thorn in one person's side that they can't find another server to play on that makes them happy and they decide to give up playing TFC all together then they really weren't that committed to the game to begin with.

Originally Posted by grg

3. One last thing. You're acting like you're the old guy who has a lot of experience, and that some things you do, we just won't understand. I don't give a fuck to that. I'm 19 going to 20.

I'll give you this, you're good at math. I'm 34 and an 1/8, but I'm gonna be 35 (Scuzzy holds up his left hand and shows 3 fingers, his right shows 5)

Originally Posted by grg

I was (am, actually) leader of the best clan on Brazil

You don't seem to sure about this, being the leader part I mean. On a side note, [o-t] has no leaders.

Originally Posted by grg

(which sucked back in the days but we trained hard and got on top). I was for a long time admin of a league and a server. I made my clan's website and kept it online with my own money. I've played with some of the greatest players around ([MsA], cheese, wheaties, Nar, etc), even if I had like ping 180. So you can't just come here with a bunch of stupid arguments, and say like "well, you will never understand this". When it's totally the opposite. If you had experienced a little of the GOOD TFC, with clans, leagues, watching demos from the best players, playing gathers, etc, you would know what we are talking about.

I find it humorous that you list who you've played TFC with as part of your list of accomplishments. These are the things that we're way... WAY past as "old people". I didn't mean this as a put down, it's just a truth. You and I are at completely stages in life. These things are very important to you, they aren't to us. It's kinda like the way a 5 year old is into big trucks, or 13 year olds are into their hair. We're beyond that, not because we're better then you, but just because we're honestly beyond that stage in life. We want to have fun with our friends, if a few outsiders come in and want to play and play by our rules, then great! If not, that's ok too.

Originally Posted by grg

Well, it's your server, you make the rules. But I am plenty sure that your server hasn't helped TFC at all. That's what pisses me off. One of the reasons because TFC died were the servers with nazi rules and filled with bots. I hope that will never happen on FF.

I'm almost honored that you feel the [o-t] has so much influence that we've single handedly killed the game for a bunch of people, I never really thought we were that big.

[Scuzzy]

Originally Posted by ekiM

Anti-bhop sentiment comes pretty much exclusively from people who've never even tried to learn it because they're not interested in competitive play. On the other hand, virtually every player who actually spent a little bit of time and learned how to use a basic feature of the game engine (air acceleration) enjoys it and realises it adds a lot of depth to the movement of the game. Is it that hard to connect the dots here?

Again, I'm not against bhopping, we just don't want it on our TFC server. We've decided to leave this option open (as previously stated) because of the differing engine for FF. We'll see how it goes.

Originally Posted by ekiM

Seems to me that if you didn't care what people thought of you you wouldn't be so defensive when people voiced their opinions.

You underestimate the joy I get out of a good debate. I may get defensive from time to time, but that's usually only when someone lies or begins to twist my words. Assumption is the mother of all fuckups.