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Old 10-23-2007, 05:33 PM   #201
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Well, it's not that the people are dense, but the coordination needs a little work. I know several people who's good at dod, but for the life of them, couldn't get the rocket-grenade combo jump. So i told them to bind the grens as toggles, start running, prime the gren, on the 3rd beep jump and fire the rocket at the same time, then look toward where you're moving.

Not an in-game tutorial like msgs in-game. but an in-game tutorial as in a new tab along with "find servers" "create server" "options" etc, that new comers to tf can click on, and take them step by step toward advanced movement/jumping/shooting training stuff for each class. At least, thats it seemed like the people were suggesting in the posts such as here:
and

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Old 10-23-2007, 05:48 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by C-Aim
I'm so tired of people constantly bitching about the lack of PR for this game. Everybody wants the devs to do it all, what is stopping you from going out yourself and doing some PR for the game? If you don't have the time to do it yourself then you have no right to complain that others, who are already devoting massive amounts of time to the game itself, don't have the time.

I.E. Put up or shut up.
Amen
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Old 10-23-2007, 05:58 PM   #203
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The reason i brought it up is i tend to see this question a lot when browsing through the logs on my TFC-server:

"How do i jump high with the scout?!?!?" ... Usually asked to the bots who for some reason don't want to share

I don't know whether or not these people are able to find things out on the web, but they won't even know that they have to search for "conc jumping".
 


Old 10-23-2007, 06:38 PM   #204
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we really do need more peeps. spread the word guys, every lil bit helps. and tell em a patch is comming soon.
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:01 AM   #205
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well, i have told a shit load of people, problem is... they cant figure out how to install ff
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Old 10-24-2007, 02:32 AM   #206
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PR wasn't the problem. Plenty of people were around at launch or tried since then. First impressions and gameplay changes/issues (and other games) ran alot of people off.

That being said FF has more players on usually than most mods ever get on at once and is doing fine atm. Just gonna have to wait for patches/releases to try to get more people playing and see what direction the mod goes from there.

Last edited by Major Lee High; 10-24-2007 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:03 PM   #207
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I don't think it was first impressions, FF runs better than 90% of the mods I've ever downloaded and played on first release. I think its just the combination of TF2, Halo and WoW sucking off the players. But even TF2 has had a drastic decrease of players from the first couple of weeks; a large amount of the players I used to see playing FF that went to TF2 have now gone back to CS:S.
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:13 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost
I don't think it was first impressions, FF runs better than 90% of the mods I've ever downloaded and played on first release. I think its just the combination of TF2, Halo and WoW sucking off the players. But even TF2 has had a drastic decrease of players from the first couple of weeks; a large amount of the players I used to see playing FF that went to TF2 have now gone back to CS:S.
Are you talking since release of the beta or the orange box release? Cause the number of people playing TF2 more than doubled a few days after the orange box came out.
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:24 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Uudge
Well, it's not that the people are dense, but the coordination needs a little work. I know several people who's good at dod, but for the life of them, couldn't get the rocket-grenade combo jump. So i told them to bind the grens as toggles, start running, prime the gren, on the 3rd beep jump and fire the rocket at the same time, then look toward where you're moving.

Not an in-game tutorial like msgs in-game. but an in-game tutorial as in a new tab along with "find servers" "create server" "options" etc, that new comers to tf can click on, and take them step by step toward advanced movement/jumping/shooting training stuff for each class. At least, thats it seemed like the people were suggesting in the posts such as here:

and
I really don't think complete newbs should be introduced to those advanced techniques. A lot of that stuff is stuff that comes with time. When first playing the game they should be learning how to prime a grenade, what the main rolls of all the classes are, what class they like the most, and how to use that class effectively. They shouldn't have to wrap their mind around rocket/grenade combo jumps, conc jumps, and bunnyhopping right off the bat.

Unfortunately since a good number of people playing already know how to do that stuff newbs are going to be curious how to do that stuff if they see it in a server (which they will...probably a lot). Learning that stuff is hard (even with the hints. The hints can't perform the action for you) and may put off brand new people.
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:04 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Lost
But even TF2 has had a drastic decrease of players from the first couple of weeks; a large amount of the players I used to see playing FF that went to TF2 have now gone back to CS:S.
Erm, not according to the statistics I've been watching...TF2 has been growing every week since the beta came out. It currently has 12,000 players, versus about 4,500 at the same time/day when it was in beta.
 


Old 10-25-2007, 01:34 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike.Gayner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost
I don't think it was first impressions, FF runs better than 90% of the mods I've ever downloaded and played on first release. I think its just the combination of TF2, Halo and WoW sucking off the players. But even TF2 has had a drastic decrease of players from the first couple of weeks; a large amount of the players I used to see playing FF that went to TF2 have now gone back to CS:S.
Erm, not according to the statistics I've been watching...TF2 has been growing every week since the beta came out. It currently has 12,000 players, versus about 4,500 at the same time/day when it was in beta.
Actually, the growth is not as big as you think. Considering TF2 is being piggy backed by valve's immoral marketting tactics.

http://www.game-monitor.com/search.php?game=tf2

The graphs on the bottom is telling a different story.
The graph on the left shows both potential(red) and actual(green) number of players. The potential number has gone up fairly high but average player base increase(not when players are maxed) is roughly 6000.

The orange box was advertised with forced in-map ads on cs,
which has an average of 80k players, through aztec, dust, and dust2, without the server admins' permissions. And yet, with all this advertising, from the graph, it seems that the average amount of players is 10~11k, even though the number of servers was rising. While this number is exceptionally good for mods, it's only average for a commerialized and advertised game, especially so, since valve forced the ads in those 3 maps.
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Old 10-25-2007, 02:03 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barronofhellion
well, i have told a shit load of people, problem is... they cant figure out how to install ff
we're looking at getting it on crossus, so it should provide an alternative (and possibly preferred) method for installation. it should automatically update stuff too!
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Old 10-25-2007, 03:14 PM   #213
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I searched for it in the Steam store and I can't find it under 3rd party games. Why isn't it there? Seems to me that people trust games downloaded via Steam rather than the word of a stranger.
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Old 10-25-2007, 04:28 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost
a large amount of the players I used to see playing FF that went to TF2 have now gone back to CS:S.
That is where I am at - back to CS:S and I only play the gun games mod.

There are a lot of people that have been following this mod for a long, long time. And that is part of the problem. In a big way a lot of players were expecting this mod to be further along and almost bug free.

An example - 2fort. FF has been in development for @ 2 years. And in that 2 years no one could have a good copy of 2fort ready?

A lot of the TFC players looked at FF, and said something along the lines of "2fort is not ready? hahahah" and went on their way.

The debate is not about 2fort - its just a small part of the bigger picture.

The other comment I have heard from old school TFC players:
There is a mind set that FF was developed by "elite clanners" who thought they knew what the public wanted.

It looks like too much time was spent on developing the medic, and not enough time on other characters.

The medics speed, concing ability and over powered nail gun has helped drive me away from the game. Before I can prime a grenade and throw it at the medics location, my sentry gun has been destroyed.

Most people that play TFC know that a lot of advanced players play the medic. Since the medic is over powered in FF, that leads me to think that the developers were not thinking of the other classes.

The other part that has helped drive me away from FF is all the STUPID clan rules stuff. Just about every server I go to has some kind of rule - No fighting in the yard, no yard D, no pryo D, no HW offense. WTF people, so I stopped server hopping and played only one server. Well, that is no fun if no one is there. In all my years of playing fortress (QWTF - FF) never have I seen so many poorly ran servers!!

The constant crashes leads me to think that the beta testers had certain kinds of video cards an systems. These crashes are what drove a LOT, and I mean a LOT of people away from FF.

First impressions are important, and the first impression a lot of people had was "CRASH!!" or the sideways slant on respawn.
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:23 PM   #215
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I mostly agree with you on everything you've said. I'd like to also point out that the devs are getting paid $0 to create this mod, so while they may be 1337 players, it's the 1337 players who are generally most dedicated and can see the game from many different perspectives. That being said, there are obvious improvements that need to be made, hence the 1.1 patch.

The biggest turn-off for me is the fact that I'll start playing, getting the hang of things in game, when BAM, HL2 has to close, if you were doing something, I'm sorry. I hate that error, and with CS 1.6 right above it, and TFC right below it on my desktop, I'm very tempted to hop to some random TFC server or go play on my CS clan server that I manage.

It only seems to not affect me on conc maps. I can play as much as I want, but when I'm on a conc map, I need people to be there, not to compete, but I conc sometimes to chill, to hang out. I've got a lot of friends who love multiplayer games, and when I mention FF is free, they are all about, "Where can I dl it?" but are halted by the fact that HL2 or something similar is required to play FF...

So, in essence, you have to pay to play FF in one way or another. I already had CS:S on my pc which allowed me to play FF, then I got the Orange Box, so I've got nothing to worry about. I know you can take the time out of your very uneventful and boring life to go to the HL2 forums and get a free copy from someone who has 2 of em, but that's an additional hassle... My friends are lazy LOL so most of em are just like screw it, I'm fine playing CS for now.

Another thing is the upgrades you have to make to play these games. I know people who still only get about 50-70 fps on CS 1.6. How do you expect people to flock over to FF when ya gotta pay $250+ to upgrade your PC just to have a decent experience? Again, one way or another, you have to pay. I am by no means assuming FF is the only game that requires minimum spec either, I'm just giving reasons as to why not a lot of people play FF.

FF is a great game, I'm able to hold my own while the game is working, I'm a true nade whore, I know where every nade pack is in every map, and the quickest routes to get more nades. I'm an engi at heart, so throw away your excess metal or else your body will be filled with shrapnel if you get near my flag XD.

Things to improve to get a lot of players to play FF:
Advertising
1.1 Patch
Additional patches released as problems become known
HL2 crash fix
Addition to the Steam Store so people can DL from there
A web site(Need help? I'm a web designer)
More updates from mods(dev journals.. the suspense causes ANURISMS)
A Donations link
More maps(2fort, Casbah, Rock2, etc)
Better clan servers(can't control decisions of admins, I know..)
More mirrors to dl the game, as well as where to purchase a server that will run FF.

If I owned a server, it'd be laid back, with only common sense rules applied, such as no spawn spamming, no building SG's blocking spawn, no spawn infecting, hell no spawn anything... I wouldn't try to control people such as removing bunnyhopping, or saying that you can't have more than 2 snipers on a team... I would let people do what THEY want, not what the SERVER wants, because it ultimately comes down to that. If the people want it, and you can provide it, your server will flourish, but if the opposite is true, it will never have more than admins, or 1-2 people in it. I'd also never have a 24/7 server, but have a nice enough rotation so people can get the maps they want, and rockthevote if they want a specific map.

You should see some of the more 'controlled' servers these days that are on FF now, they are more lenient because they can't get the player base they want to... I'm going to reiterate again, Give the majority what they want, and they will play on your server, play FF more often, and generally be happier and tell THEIR friends about the game.
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:28 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by KubeDawg
50-70 fps on CS 1.6. How do you expect people to flock over to FF when ya gotta pay $250+ to upgrade your PC
not directed at you really and i mean no offence but im sorry but if you cant afford an upgrade after 10 years get a better job...
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:37 PM   #217
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Well some people aren't as hardcore of a gamer as people like myself(I'm actually willing to shell out the cash for a new gfx card, an extra gb of ram, and a new PSU) but not all people are like me in that respect. It's easy to say get a better job, but people have lives, family, child support, mortgage, car payments, rent, ETC... I'm smart enough to figure out I get paid almost $1300 a month, considering there are 4 wednesdays in a month, and every 3 months, there's a 5th paycheck of over $300 in my pocket, so that's the cash I use for the stuffz I want, the rest goes to bills and savings.

Hell I know someone who's playing on a Pentium III still, with 128mb of ram with integrated sound/video... Some people aren't fortunate enough to spend a butt load on a PC upgrade...
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:44 PM   #218
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well what im saying is, if you saved 10$ a month 10 years ago you would have 1200$ to buy a new pc (all new components) today
that being said ... i think 90% of all problems ppl are having with ff is mainly because they are using WAY outdated hardware... i say this mainly because i have only noticed one real problem with ff... the scoreboard issue..
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:53 PM   #219
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Key word there is 'if'... It's hard to not spend money you have. Impulse shopping combined with the crazy amount of consumerism baffles me. Why did I buy over $400 in Pokemon cards when I was 13? because the money allowed me to at the time(allowance ftw) as that was what I was into. How did people know 10 years ago that they would have ever needed to upgrade their PC to play a new version of the game, or newer games in general? Long term investing doesn't work very well, even if it's $10 a month(which believe me sounds super easy to do) but then as you walk through Best Buy and see ZOMG 2 dvd's for the price of one, only $20?!?!? You must be crazy not to buy it, and they're movies you even like, THAT'S A BONUS!...

What I'm trying to say is that despite the ability to save money, most people don't because they're living in the now, and if you aren't in the now, you slowly become a hermit and hide under a rock for the rest of your life, and noone wants that.

But, before this turns into a philosophical debate, let us focus our attention at more pressing matters, such as WHEN WILL PATCH OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:P
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Old 10-25-2007, 06:02 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by KubeDawg
at more pressing matters, such as WHEN WILL PATCH OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
true there are some real bugs that need attention... with this team however they like to get a lot done over a long period and push it through ... which i actually dont mind because i rather have to patch ever other month or so vs patch every week, and end up with everybody going WTF I CANT JOIN A SERVERSZ WHAT GIVS ?!?!@@!!1
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