TF2 SGs...

[Ihmhi]

Via Steam, here is the concept art for the SGs in TF2.

They are fairly big so I am not going to stretch out the page with the pictures; I am just going to link.

http://storefront.steampowered.com/S...SentryGun1.jpg

http://storefront.steampowered.com/S...SentryGun2.jpg

What do you guys think? I noticed that the chainguns on the level 2 and level 3 (in the render, first picture) are the same... I wonder if this is a balance change or if the rate of fire will improve when you upgrade from 2 to 3.

[Norris]

I had posted this before in the TF2 (delayed) thread. level 2 and 3 look similar. In TFC the level 3 sentrygun was only worth to upgrade because of it's health. the rocket upgrade was most likely useless because the missile usually only hit the own team. maybe they finally add something like an auto-missle or something. that would be at least valuable.

[Gunslinger]

lol, sg rockets aren't useless, the splash damage often kills people either just ducking behind a wall or, and this may be crazy concept, have you played A vs D? Compare l2 vs l3 SG at the gate on any level...

[Norris]

well ok that might be true in AvD but as in CTF it's hardly useful. most ppl see rockets coming and won't just wait till it smashes them. just take an example monkey or shutdown2. offy usually concs on the flag. the only person being hit by the rocket is the defender who tried to defend the flag. it's not really helpful

[Nezumi]

If the gun is hitting someone they get pinned down and hit by the rocket. If the gun isn't hitting them then no loss anyway. Sometimes someone will agro an sg but jump around a corner before it hits them, then jump back with a primed grenade just in time to get hit in the face with the rocket. I see this happen strangely often.

[Norris]

ja I kinda need to degrade my first two posts. I can see your point. it's true that the sg is still doing damage at times. but I still think that the level 3 sg in tfc(ctf) is not as good as it should be. it usually doesn't stand a chance vs a good offy player nowadays.

[Nezumi]

I certainly won't argue with that.

[Gunslinger]

I think your post was degrading enough as it is. Luckily, you go on to clarify it; yes, SG's in TFC now are fairly poor since players movement is so much better.

Assuming the rockets are tweaked to be the same as soldiers, my main concearn would be they require a slightly increased rate of fire and more health. A single gren can take down an L3 sg which is just pants. This is of course based on the assumption that this is TFC and not FF, as they might be indestructible machines in FF which eat HWG's for breakfast.

[AfterShock]

just take an example monkey or shutdown2. offy usually concs on the flag. the only person being hit by the rocket is the defender who tried to defend the flag. it's not really helpful

I found that statement to be interesting, and decided to do some quick demo analysis to see if this is actually true.

England vs Finland on monkey_l (last ectfc)

Total rockets fired:38
Rockets that damaged enemy offy: 4
Rockets that did nothing: 32
Rockets that damaged own teammates: 2 (both minor injuries)

I guess the figures speak for themselves, you're right I found that rockets were basically useless against concers (like you said), but semi useful when people are trying to nail the SG - although usually the offy were dead by the time the rockets actually arrived. Were the other defenders not so good, a good few (5- rockets would have done damage. On one occasion, the rocket stopped a flag being touched (and possibly saved a cap), twice the rockets did a lot of damage / killed the offy, and once was a minor injury (splash damage). It is certainly positional. When the SG was at top resupply, all the rockets were fired at the ceiling due to the concers coming in. In flag room and in more enclosed spaces (water room), rockets did a lot more (albeit not much), but the SG died easier.

I'm guessing without a demoman, and an HW on the flag, the level 3 rockets would do a lot more TKing.

I also think it's pretty clear that the less skilled the enemy, the more damage a computer controlled sentry gun will do.

One thing i would say, in the rockets defense, is its nice for when the enemy tries to nail it from a distance. Like popping out from underneath sd2 ramp to nail it. Come out too far and you get a rocket in your face - a level 2 simply cant defend itself like that.

Its basically dependent on the map. Positions like chimkey (firing rockets through the hole into spiral), roasted (firing rockets into the T from bridge), 2fort (especially when flag is in spiral), well (firing rockets to people trying to run past into the flag room, or from inside flag room -> outside flag room back wall), openfire (steps -> flag area, or switch coridoor if its being nailed), monkey (top fr ramp -> T) etc. Anywhere with an enclosed, short to medium range space without too much height to it.

but I still think that the level 3 sg in tfc(ctf) is not as good as it should be. it usually doesn't stand a chance vs a good offy player nowadays.

I think it could maybe be buffed very slightly, but all but the very top clans still use an engineer on most maps, which is evidence that they arent that useless. I can still rack up quite a score as engineer, outfragging the rest of defense on a surprising number of maps (and most of the kills come from SG)

If the gun is hitting someone they get pinned down and hit by the rocket.

This is not actually the main use for the rocket (at the moment). This may well be true against offy soldiers and demos - people with a bit more armor, but medics and scouts wont survive the chaingun long enough for the rocket to hit anyway. If offense soldiers and demos are getting to the FR your SG isnt going to live long anyway.

[Norris]

Originally Posted by AfterShock

I think it could maybe be buffed very slightly, but all but the very top clans still use an engineer on most maps, which is evidence that they arent that useless. I can still rack up quite a score as engineer, outfragging the rest of defense on a surprising number of maps (and most of the kills come from SG)

I'd like to point out that:
- the engineer in steam is handy due the teleport. you shouldn't forget that
- we still prefered playing maps like chimkey without him. guess you know why.
- we often prefered the eng due a lack of an capable demo/sol in our D.

outfraggin the D depends on the offy attacking style. if they just conc on the flag and refuse to attack your sg then you prolly can get a good score. there's no doubt.



ps: you def have to much time shok ;D

[Lost]

Its his one post per month.

[richard nixon]

I like both FF's and TF2's models but the TF2's look much more menacing

If I was Team FF I would step up the game and make my models better than TF2s

but it's not a pissing match and the models are fine so...who cares

[TheodorusRex]

SG models that I've seen from the FF screenshots look fine as-is. Don't need to be changed just to 'one up' the ones in TF2.