whats beyond the universe?

o_weetbix · 07-09-2005, 04:20 PM

one thing thats always on my mind is whats beyond our universe... everything has an end, right ? even nasa cant give a right answer to this, most of the answers are just long and confusing. its the one thing that keeps me believing in god... that and the fact that no-one on earth has ever created life from nothingness.

anyways, being brought up in a catholic environment, and seeing that science cant prove whats beyond our universe... brings me to the belief that beyond our universe is another plain of existence, maybe where we go where we die... i guess you could call it heaven/nirvana

o_ivaqual · 07-09-2005, 04:51 PM

everything hasn't an end.
just because you don't understand something doesn't mean that it's not true.
as far as the most popular scientific theories go, life wasn't created from nothingness, and no "one" created it. "just" a chemical reaction (granted, a chemical reaction that has many of its implications still unknown, without even entering the realms of metaphysic).
science can't prove what's "beyond our universe". or can it ? more and more theories are appearing about what may be over there, but still, if science can't prove right now what's beyond our universe, who says that it won't ever be able to ? at some point, the rotundness of the earth couldn't be proven, does that mean the earth was a flat plane ? just give science the time. while i'm not saying that modern science can prove and explain everything, it is possible that it will eventually.

o_captain_cadaver · 07-09-2005, 05:27 PM

I like the theory of infinite continuity. States that the universe is neverending and reaching one side will mean popping out on the other side. Kinda like that game asteroids. The universe isn't a place in space, it is space itself. I recommend reading works by Kip S. Thorne or Michio Kaku.

o_i_like_me...shut_up · 07-09-2005, 05:36 PM

I just dont see how atheist (or however its spelled) sleep at night. I mean what do they think about when they die "oh shit this is it for me goodbye forever" I mean come on. Only good can come out of a religion because it alows u to believe that theres something after this life, and instead of sittingon ure death bed saying shit its over, u could say yay i know im going to a better place. If there is no heaven or hell u could still believe in it cause if atheist are right then u wont remember anything cause u wont exist (therfore u can not be angry or dissapointed that there was no god that u prayed for). So one thing that always bugs me is why do atheists not just live like hell if they know there going to just be dirt and memories of other ppl? What keeps there morality? how do they keep a state of mental stability thinking that this is there only one life? Personaly I think that u can only do good to yourself mentally if u have a religion cause (mabye its just me but) wouldnt u feel alot better if u thought that the life u live is only the begining and upon death u could spend an eternity w\god in non stop happyness.

o_ivaqual · 07-09-2005, 05:46 PM

i am atheist but strive to live a good life nonetheless. it's just that, differently from a christian (or others), i don't expect to gain any reward out of it.

o_captain_cadaver · 07-09-2005, 06:03 PM

Thats kinda crappy way to look at christianity. Im christian, but I dont live a good life because I dont want to go to hell or be accepted into heaven. I dont expect a big fat reward from God. I do good deeds because it makes me and others feel better about ourselves.

o_binarylife · 07-09-2005, 07:06 PM

A science teacher once told me that the only way to truely understand the definition of infinite is to in no way understand the definition of "end."

o_ivaqual · 07-09-2005, 07:10 PM

cadaver : i perfectly agree. i was answering i_like_me though and his view of christianity doesn't seem to be really comparable

o_zippy · 07-09-2005, 07:13 PM

be honest ppl do u really believe in GOD i mean if so who greated GOD ? what came first the chicken or the egg? Really we can all sit here and make shit up or guess things but tbh no one reallys knows.

Do any of u believe in Ghosts?

o_travis dane · 07-09-2005, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_Like_Me...Shut_Up

I just dont see how atheist (or however its spelled) sleep at night. I mean what do they think about when they die "oh shit this is it for me goodbye forever" I mean come on. Only good can come out of a religion because it alows u to believe that theres something after this life, and instead of sittingon ure death bed saying shit its over, u could say yay i know im going to a better place. If there is no heaven or hell u could still believe in it cause if atheist are right then u wont remember anything cause u wont exist (therfore u can not be angry or dissapointed that there was no god that u prayed for). So one thing that always bugs me is why do atheists not just live like hell if they know there going to just be dirt and memories of other ppl? What keeps there morality? how do they keep a state of mental stability thinking that this is there only one life? Personaly I think that u can only do good to yourself mentally if u have a religion cause (mabye its just me but) wouldnt u feel alot better if u thought that the life u live is only the begining and upon death u could spend an eternity w\god in non stop happyness.

A 100 (or even a 130 in the near future) years is a lot of 'life'. Besides, who wants to live forever? What's the point?

o_storm · 07-09-2005, 08:05 PM

Matter, time and space did not exist before the universe was created, nor does it exist outside the boundaries of the universe.

o_billdoor · 07-09-2005, 11:06 PM

There are perfectly rational scientific explanations of all these things. Just because your mind can't understand them intuitively doesn't mean they can't be expressed and proven logically.

For some people, studying mathematics of physics retrains the brain so that the logical solutions to these things becomes the most intuitively "correct" explanation.

The question of what's "outside" the universe is simply one of the passage of information. By our definition of "universe" as an entirety, the following is intrinsically true: nothing outside the universe can affect anything inside the universe. Therefore, no information can flow from outside of the universe to inside of the universe. Because of this, we can never know about anything outside the universe, and may therefore assume that there is nothing outside of the universe. In order to state that something exists we must see it effecting some kind of change, which we cannot do since anything that hypothetically exists outside of the universe cannot transmit any information to us.

Assuming the big bang singularity theory is correct, the same applies to the question of what was "before" the big bang (quite aside from the general relativity theory that explains how there was no time before the big bang). At the point of singularity, the amount of data held in the universe was zero. The singularity had no size, position, velocity or potential energy. Any data that existed before the time of singularity/big bang would have been eliminated, and would therefore have no effect on the universe at any point after the big bang. As above, we can therefore assume that nothing existed before the time of the big bang.

Quote:

Originally Posted by weetbix

that and the fact that no-one on earth has ever created life from nothingness.

To be able to make this statement, you have to define what you mean by "life". It's simply a question of words -- for some definitions of life, this statement would be correct and for others, it wouldn't.

o_sobe green · 07-09-2005, 11:42 PM

Voyager I is almost out of our solar system. That is about the biggest thing we've been able to do so far. I'd laugh if some UFO wasted Voyager right as it left our solar system.

o_simmadown · 07-09-2005, 11:46 PM

Let's divide objects into a few groups:

Group 1 - Objects we can conceive, and know exist. Examples: specific trees, specific puppies, specific things.

Group 2 - Objects we can conceive, and know don't exist. Examples: a mountain of solid gold, UFO's, trolls, the perfect woman.

Group 3- Objects we can't conceive, but do exist Examples: Travel back in time 1000 years and: radiation, DNA, laws of thermodynamics, quantum electrodynamics.

The fallacy of athiests is their certainty that God falls into Group 2. So certain God can be wholly conceived by the human mind.

-Simma

o_demasu · 07-09-2005, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoBe Green

Voyager I is almost out of our solar system. That is about the biggest thing we've been able to do so far. I'd laugh if some UFO wasted Voyager right as it left our solar system.

That would suck soooo much ass.

o_travis dane · 07-10-2005, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simmadown

The fallacy of athiests is their certainty that God falls into Group 2. So certain God can be wholly conceived by the human mind.

Actually no. I don't know how other athiests draw their conclusions, but I certainly don't solely on the fact that I can't see\detect god. It's a sum of things rather, that simply doesn't add up to the existance of god. I won't go into to this too deep, but it boils down to questionability of the bible, the existance of evil where god is supposed to be good and omnipotent, science slowly debunking everything previously regarded as a 'miracle', human psychology, evolution, etcetera.

Quote:

Voyager I is almost out of our solar system. That is about the biggest thing we've been able to do so far. I'd laugh if some UFO wasted Voyager right as it left our solar system.

Poking of fun of our little probe are we?

I'd argue space travel would be much more advanced and progressed, if it wasn't for our feeble propulsion system. Barely able to break the atmosphere, and limited to very light-weighted equipment, there isn't much any if of us can do in space at the moment. Just sit tight until we finally get rid of our primitive combustion-based propulsion.

o_demasu · 07-10-2005, 12:03 AM

What we need to do is develop a system that can accelerate us to near lightspeed almost instantly, if we get that we can go to many places. And also that way we wouldn't age as much as people on earth(due to the relativistic speed that we are going at) so we(the people on the ship) could take much longer trips.

o_simmadown · 07-10-2005, 12:17 AM

Fastest man on earth: John Young 24,791 mile/hour

Speed of light: 669,600,000 miles/hour

We're getting close!

-Simma

P.S. Yes Mervaka, I know I didn't use metric units.

o_sigma · 07-10-2005, 01:18 AM

New Scientific Proof about the universe!

Okay I'll take a lot of assumptions here to state what I think. 1) From the beginning of our known universe (who says there aren't more?) things have been traveling outwards pretty much roughly spherically. 2) The universe doesn't actually have an 'edge'. Then here is what I've say. There doesn't have to be any sort of loop around system, whats so bad about infinity? Secondly, I recall hearing that the universe is actually accelerating (I mean an increase in velocity) as it difts further apart which brings me to my next possiblity. Since the whole idea of the big bang is very mysterious (no conservation of mass and energy here, and almost a total break down of all physics on all levels), why not more than one? If one went off an undiscribible amount of time ago, then that matter is still pulling, which could be account for the so called "dark matter" and it would account for the acceleration. Then if at least 2 exist, why not more? The universe could merely consist of several shells of old universi and vasts amount of space. Of course our universe appears very stable which means it could even support life. A large enough distance between the layers would mean the effects of gravity would be just be noticable, but not have a heavy influence. Also, the eariler universi would have cooled down to probably something around 3 degrees above absolute 0 (hince all dark matter). Then again my theory is merely speculation and with all certainity is wrong to some extent.

The smartest human I've never known said, "Science isn't about finding the right answer, but finding the answer that is least wrong."

This is the wrong post to bring up God, but my two cents: Most (not all) athetists seem to ignore the evidence for intelligent design (just search google for books (you can try something like information complexity, etc.), here isn't the place to discuss it)

o_i_like_me...shut_up · 07-10-2005, 01:23 AM

Im fine w\ppl being atheist and i dont mind them as long as they arent asses. oh how some of u would like to meet my father

. for every logical scientific theory u could come up w\ to negate a bible story, he has an even more logical scientific explaination to make it make even more sense to u. But again i have no problems w\atheists (and if there right then cool it wont really matter and if we are right then cool it wont matter still I would just hate for it to be real and then all the atheists do go to hell that i try to help cause that would suck

)

07-09-2005, 04:20 PM	#1
o_weetbix Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	whats beyond the universe? one thing thats always on my mind is whats beyond our universe... everything has an end, right ? even nasa cant give a right answer to this, most of the answers are just long and confusing. its the one thing that keeps me believing in god... that and the fact that no-one on earth has ever created life from nothingness. anyways, being brought up in a catholic environment, and seeing that science cant prove whats beyond our universe... brings me to the belief that beyond our universe is another plain of existence, maybe where we go where we die... i guess you could call it heaven/nirvana

07-09-2005, 04:51 PM	#2
o_ivaqual Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Europe, Front Yard Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	everything hasn't an end. just because you don't understand something doesn't mean that it's not true. as far as the most popular scientific theories go, life wasn't created from nothingness, and no "one" created it. "just" a chemical reaction (granted, a chemical reaction that has many of its implications still unknown, without even entering the realms of metaphysic). science can't prove what's "beyond our universe". or can it ? more and more theories are appearing about what may be over there, but still, if science can't prove right now what's beyond our universe, who says that it won't ever be able to ? at some point, the rotundness of the earth couldn't be proven, does that mean the earth was a flat plane ? just give science the time. while i'm not saying that modern science can prove and explain everything, it is possible that it will eventually.

07-09-2005, 05:27 PM	#3
o_captain_cadaver Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UMR Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I like the theory of infinite continuity. States that the universe is neverending and reaching one side will mean popping out on the other side. Kinda like that game asteroids. The universe isn't a place in space, it is space itself. I recommend reading works by Kip S. Thorne or Michio Kaku.

07-09-2005, 05:36 PM	#4
o_i_like_me...shut_up Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	I just dont see how atheist (or however its spelled) sleep at night. I mean what do they think about when they die "oh shit this is it for me goodbye forever" I mean come on. Only good can come out of a religion because it alows u to believe that theres something after this life, and instead of sittingon ure death bed saying shit its over, u could say yay i know im going to a better place. If there is no heaven or hell u could still believe in it cause if atheist are right then u wont remember anything cause u wont exist (therfore u can not be angry or dissapointed that there was no god that u prayed for). So one thing that always bugs me is why do atheists not just live like hell if they know there going to just be dirt and memories of other ppl? What keeps there morality? how do they keep a state of mental stability thinking that this is there only one life? Personaly I think that u can only do good to yourself mentally if u have a religion cause (mabye its just me but) wouldnt u feel alot better if u thought that the life u live is only the begining and upon death u could spend an eternity w\god in non stop happyness.

07-09-2005, 05:46 PM	#5
o_ivaqual Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Europe, Front Yard Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	i am atheist but strive to live a good life nonetheless. it's just that, differently from a christian (or others), i don't expect to gain any reward out of it.

07-09-2005, 06:03 PM	#6
o_captain_cadaver Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UMR Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Thats kinda crappy way to look at christianity. Im christian, but I dont live a good life because I dont want to go to hell or be accepted into heaven. I dont expect a big fat reward from God. I do good deeds because it makes me and others feel better about ourselves.

07-09-2005, 07:06 PM	#7
o_binarylife Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	A science teacher once told me that the only way to truely understand the definition of infinite is to in no way understand the definition of "end."

07-09-2005, 07:10 PM	#8
o_ivaqual Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Europe, Front Yard Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	cadaver : i perfectly agree. i was answering i_like_me though and his view of christianity doesn't seem to be really comparable

07-09-2005, 07:13 PM	#9
o_zippy Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cumbria,UK Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	be honest ppl do u really believe in GOD i mean if so who greated GOD ? what came first the chicken or the egg? Really we can all sit here and make shit up or guess things but tbh no one reallys knows. Do any of u believe in Ghosts?

07-09-2005, 08:05 PM	#11
o_storm Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: SCOTLAND (above England) Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Matter, time and space did not exist before the universe was created, nor does it exist outside the boundaries of the universe.

07-09-2005, 11:42 PM	#13
o_sobe green Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Arkansas Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Voyager I is almost out of our solar system. That is about the biggest thing we've been able to do so far. I'd laugh if some UFO wasted Voyager right as it left our solar system.

07-09-2005, 11:46 PM	#14
o_simmadown Join Date: May 2005 Location: 1 of 4 time zones in U.S.A. Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Let's divide objects into a few groups: Group 1 - Objects we can conceive, and know exist. Examples: specific trees, specific puppies, specific things. Group 2 - Objects we can conceive, and know don't exist. Examples: a mountain of solid gold, UFO's, trolls, the perfect woman. Group 3- Objects we can't conceive, but do exist Examples: Travel back in time 1000 years and: radiation, DNA, laws of thermodynamics, quantum electrodynamics. The fallacy of athiests is their certainty that God falls into Group 2. So certain God can be wholly conceived by the human mind. -Simma

07-10-2005, 12:03 AM	#17
o_demasu Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	What we need to do is develop a system that can accelerate us to near lightspeed almost instantly, if we get that we can go to many places. And also that way we wouldn't age as much as people on earth(due to the relativistic speed that we are going at) so we(the people on the ship) could take much longer trips.

07-10-2005, 12:17 AM	#18
o_simmadown Join Date: May 2005 Location: 1 of 4 time zones in U.S.A. Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Fastest man on earth: John Young 24,791 mile/hour Speed of light: 669,600,000 miles/hour We're getting close! -Simma P.S. Yes Mervaka, I know I didn't use metric units.

07-10-2005, 01:18 AM	#19
o_sigma Join Date: May 2005 Location: Corner of no and where Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	New Scientific Proof about the universe! Okay I'll take a lot of assumptions here to state what I think. 1) From the beginning of our known universe (who says there aren't more?) things have been traveling outwards pretty much roughly spherically. 2) The universe doesn't actually have an 'edge'. Then here is what I've say. There doesn't have to be any sort of loop around system, whats so bad about infinity? Secondly, I recall hearing that the universe is actually accelerating (I mean an increase in velocity) as it difts further apart which brings me to my next possiblity. Since the whole idea of the big bang is very mysterious (no conservation of mass and energy here, and almost a total break down of all physics on all levels), why not more than one? If one went off an undiscribible amount of time ago, then that matter is still pulling, which could be account for the so called "dark matter" and it would account for the acceleration. Then if at least 2 exist, why not more? The universe could merely consist of several shells of old universi and vasts amount of space. Of course our universe appears very stable which means it could even support life. A large enough distance between the layers would mean the effects of gravity would be just be noticable, but not have a heavy influence. Also, the eariler universi would have cooled down to probably something around 3 degrees above absolute 0 (hince all dark matter). Then again my theory is merely speculation and with all certainity is wrong to some extent. The smartest human I've never known said, "Science isn't about finding the right answer, but finding the answer that is least wrong." This is the wrong post to bring up God, but my two cents: Most (not all) athetists seem to ignore the evidence for intelligent design (just search google for books (you can try something like information complexity, etc.), here isn't the place to discuss it)

07-10-2005, 01:23 AM	#20
o_i_like_me...shut_up Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts Rated Helpful 0 Times	Im fine w\ppl being atheist and i dont mind them as long as they arent asses. oh how some of u would like to meet my father . for every logical scientific theory u could come up w\ to negate a bible story, he has an even more logical scientific explaination to make it make even more sense to u. But again i have no problems w\atheists (and if there right then cool it wont really matter and if we are right then cool it wont matter still I would just hate for it to be real and then all the atheists do go to hell that i try to help cause that would suck )

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