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Old 08-03-2011, 04:17 AM   #21
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Again, I don't believe there needs to be any changes to speed at the moment. There needs to be more focus on the classes that need the most attention.
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Old 08-03-2011, 04:40 AM   #22
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It would make it a bit harder for him to juke when someone DOES get in range, and give them the opportunity to kill the sniper before he reaches spawn.

It's something, at least.
It would make it less rage inducing since you would be able to kill the sniper but from a balance/gameplay point of view a sniper running into spawn and a sniper being killed and respawning is the same thing.
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Old 08-03-2011, 04:56 AM   #23
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Depends on the map, I guess. On some maps like anticitizen, palermo, etc, it would make a huge difference.

And it would really help curb the rage, which is good.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:11 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by FreaK367 View Post
The Scout and Medic are there though, to be the main flag capping classes, so to make them slower would still be nerfing them regardless if every other class also had their speed lowered. And they already got nerfed in 2.42+ and defense got boosted.
I disagree. Slowing all classes down slightly would mearly lower the pace of the game. As I said, I don't think it needs to be much. As it is, a scout can out-run a rocket.... and that doesn't seem right.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:45 PM   #25
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I disagree. Slowing all classes down slightly would mearly lower the pace of the game. As I said, I don't think it needs to be much. As it is, a scout can out-run a rocket.... and that doesn't seem right.
It would buff defense, because offense would be easier to hit. Defense does not need another buff.
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:09 PM   #26
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It would buff defense, because offense would be easier to hit. Defense does not need another buff.
How so? If ALL classes are slowed down a bit.............. ALL classes would include Defense....

Edit: It may seem you were referring to Iggy's other comment so NVM
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:38 PM   #27
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How so? If ALL classes are slowed down a bit.............. ALL classes would include Defense....
The chance of hitting a moving target is determined mostly by its velocity, your ability to aim, and your mouse sensitivity, not by how fast you are moving. Defense mostly stays in one place and shoots at offense. If offense is moving slower, offense is easier for defense to hit, regardless of how much slower defense is.

If you lower solly's speed by 20% and scout's speed by 20%, it is going to have a worse effect on the scout than on the solly, as the scout is more reliant on speed.

You could lower solly's speed by 20% and scout's speed by 10%, and it would have a worse effect on scout than on D solly.

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Old 08-03-2011, 10:12 PM   #28
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Scout - 385units - Too fast as is. People see the Scout fly across the map and likely get discouraged. I think slowing this class down a small amount would be a good thing.
Medic - 340units - Scout used to be played a lot less in TFC than in FF and that's simply for the fact that scout is too damn fast in comparison. A small bump in speed would be my suggestion for the Medic.
But the only reason to play scout is to be faster than medic.
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Old 08-04-2011, 05:23 AM   #29
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Well I don't pretend to know the magic formula to what will work best, but I still think the scout will be fast as hell even with a slowdown. Medic being 45 units slower is quite a bit.
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Old 08-05-2011, 02:35 PM   #30
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All I will say is this, Scouts need to be fast for their class to have a purpose. An in game limit however, is when they are so fast that they can strafe kill a heavier class like a soldier or HW because they simply cannot shoot and aim fast enough to kill them. A scout should not feel compelled to engage a heavy class one on one and win. They should always rely on their movement ability to run away and focus on capturing the flag, taking out SG's, snipers and other important defensive structure's. In other words, they should be a scout. Their class shouldn't overlap with the medic's, pyro's or soldier's.

The only way to control this is to control the speed that these classes run on. Right now, I feel the scout is a little too fast, and the medic is a little to slow. With the above mentioned guidelines and all of your associative numeric to speed knowledge I'm sure a balanced and fair solution is possible.

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Old 08-05-2011, 06:09 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by BinaryLife View Post
All I will say is this, Scouts need to be fast for their class to have a purpose. An in game limit however, is when they are so fast that they can strafe kill a heavier class like a soldier or HW because they simply cannot shoot and aim fast enough to kill them. A scout should not feel compelled to engage a heavy class one on one and win. They should always rely on their movement ability to run away and focus on capturing the flag, taking out SG's, snipers and other important defensive structure's. In other words, they should be a scout. Their class shouldn't overlap with the medic's, pyro's or soldier's.

The only way to control this is to control the speed that these classes run on. Right now, I feel the scout is a little too fast, and the medic is a little to slow. With the above mentioned guidelines and all of your associative numeric to speed knowledge I'm sure a balanced and fair solution is possible.
I wouldn't say the scout is too fast. Given the recent changes to defense id say the scout's speed is all he really has. With the way sgs are now, its almost useless to commit a run to destroying it, because by the time you get back to the enemy base, the enemy engineer already has one up and its usually lvl 3 to top it off. In most cases its better for the scout to just run altogether than engage. For that, the engineer should get a speed decrease to compensate for his fast build times.
The sniper should also. It doesnt make sense that he can be so fast and have a rifle thats not only hitscan, but can charge and instakill. If you want to keep the sniper fast, give him a projectile based sniper. Something bad company 2-esque. If you make the bullet take time to travel to its target, and maybe drop over a certain distance, it adds a whole new element. Now, not only do you have to lead your target, you have to practice and play to be good at sniper. Just like soldier or scout. Im not proposing it take 20 seconds to travel 100 meters, its velocity would need testing, but it would be a lot more fun to play sniper, and when getting gibbed from some asshole thats been sitting in the same corner of the map for 2 hours, at least you know it took some good aim to make that shot.
This game has a pace that is unlike any other and it keeps me coming back. Im sure a few others could say the same.
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Old 08-05-2011, 11:09 PM   #32
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The sniper should also. It doesnt make sense that he can be so fast and have a rifle thats not only hitscan, but can charge and instakill. If you want to keep the sniper fast, give him a projectile based sniper. Something bad company 2-esque. If you make the bullet take time to travel to its target, and maybe drop over a certain distance, it adds a whole new element. Now, not only do you have to lead your target, you have to practice and play to be good at sniper. Just like soldier or scout. Im not proposing it take 20 seconds to travel 100 meters, its velocity would need testing, but it would be a lot more fun to play sniper, and when getting gibbed from some asshole thats been sitting in the same corner of the map for 2 hours, at least you know it took some good aim to make that shot.
This game has a pace that is unlike any other and it keeps me coming back. Im sure a few others could say the same.
It would make sniper almost pointless to play if it had bullet drop and took time to reach the target. People who get killed by sniper a lot generally hate the class and don't bother learning it, which is why a lot of vocal people want it nerfed. If the devs wanted to listen to them, they would need to be careful in what way they nerfed the sniper, and it would need to make sense.

To add bullet drop it would need to apply to other weapons too. Like the nail gun, the nails go stupidly slowly, and in a straight line, for long distances. And it's a crappy little nail gun, the sniper rifle is the Snipers main weapon, and takes 5 seconds to charge a powerful shot, for that shot then to be so un-powerful that it drops over distance, when no other weapons do. Makes no sense atall. Even if it was a projectile based sniper, to have bullet drop for the most powerful shot per shot weapon in the game... doesn't work unless every other weapon gets nerfed.

Talking about the current sniper rifle though, the only thing that wouldn't be too bad with bullet drop for the sniper rifle, is if any charge under 3.5 seconds, the bullet drops over distances slowly, but 3.5+ seconds of charge on the sniper rifle, it has no bullet drop. Because if I was a sniper and waited 5 seconds to finally shoot someone, I wouldn't want to have to calculate the bullet drop, speed of the bullet, and speed of the enemy before shooting. Those are the sort of things you do in a serious war game or something.

To make the sniper slower, he should put on some weight . Because the sniper is a very thin model, and the sniper rifle and AR are both fairly small weapons, so as it is, there is no reason why the sniper should be slow in my opinion, that would make sense, he carries nothing very heavy, has no secondary grenades and only one source of ammo for both the sniper rifle and auto rifle. No deployable or any extras. And is killed very easily.
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Old 08-05-2011, 11:22 PM   #33
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All very thin arguments.

PS he has the strongest weapon in the game.

And the longest effective range (read: infinite).

And the third highest movespeed.
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Old 08-05-2011, 11:24 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreaK367 View Post
It would make sniper almost pointless to play if it had bullet drop and took time to reach the target. People who get killed by sniper a lot generally hate the class and don't bother learning it, which is why a lot of vocal people want it nerfed. If the devs wanted to listen to them, they would need to be careful in what way they nerfed the sniper, and it would need to make sense.

To add bullet drop it would need to apply to other weapons too. Like the nail gun, the nails go stupidly slowly, and in a straight line, for long distances. And it's a crappy little nail gun, the sniper rifle is the Snipers main weapon, and takes 5 seconds to charge a powerful shot, for that shot then to be so un-powerful that it drops over distance, when no other weapons do. Makes no sense atall. Even if it was a projectile based sniper, to have bullet drop for the most powerful shot per shot weapon in the game... doesn't work unless every other weapon gets nerfed.
A .50 BMG is EXTREMELY powerful and it drops over distance. Im not talking about taking away power because the shot now drops over distance. It doesnt even need to drop that far. Most maps in ff dont have very long yards, unless your talking about something like aardvark. Your focus should be more on the delay and less on the drop.
Also, you dont need to go changing how every other gun works. Giving just the sniper a projectile based rifle gives him a unique fit, and it adds depth to a class that pretty much only requires being able to highlight a target with a red dot and instakill them by releasing the mouse.
Sniper rifle would work the same, the bullet however, would not.
People who get killed a lot by sniper hate it because its skill-less. At least thats true for me. And people dont need to bother learning it because of that, because theres nothing to learn. All it takes to be a good sniper currently is the ability to click on moving targets. With this change to the sniper, the requirements to play go from point and click to having to predict where your targets will be and shoot accordingly. A headshot would mean a hell of a lot more. It would also set the good sniper apart from the bad sniper, and currently in ff, theres no way to tell whos good and whos a beginner because theres no learning curve.
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Old 08-06-2011, 12:11 AM   #35
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I always find it weird when people say there's no learning curve to the sniper. There's obviously a difference between snipers like The King and some random guy who can barely aim.

If the sniper gets a non-hitscan weapon, the hitboxes need to be fixed. There can be no compromise. The hitboxes in FF are so screwed up. It's really fun when you shoot someone coming straight at you and the bullet goes right through them.

The sniper is balanced by the fact that the hitboxes are completely terrible, and apparently unfixable.
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Old 08-06-2011, 12:59 AM   #36
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What exactly is wrong with the hitboxes? I can see about fixing them if a problem is demonstrated to me. If the problem is net latency/prediction induced, There's nothing I can do.
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Old 08-06-2011, 02:13 AM   #37
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It's the fact that speeds are much faster than in TFC and the fact that it has such a small hit radius and issues with hitscan weapons in HL2. Maybe make a super fast projectile shot? I think it'd allow players to learn how to effectively lead on sniper shots if it was setup like this. Something like medium range is instant, but at longer range it's less accurate/damage. Needs to be simplified to be able to use. Also, unscope to scope animation should be faster. The rifle needs to have a small clip, a small decrease to the speed of the shot and needs to fire when the mouse button is pressed, so no charged shot.

Oh, and one final thing. Bring back the explosion of bodies when I get a headshot. I'm tired of these damn body parts flying around like deflating balloons. At most, the head pops off but it doesn't have that awesome effect like TFC had.

Something like this would suffice:


These are just my opinions though.
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Old 08-06-2011, 04:40 AM   #38
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What exactly is wrong with the hitboxes? I can see about fixing them if a problem is demonstrated to me. If the problem is net latency/prediction induced, There's nothing I can do.
I can't offer a very technical response, but sniper is one of the 3 main classes I play, and it is also the class that most suffers from bad hitboxes.

Sometimes I can line up a perfect headshot, shoot, and it will hit the head, blood will come off, but the enemy will recieve no damage, and if I then shoot again, however many times, it's hitting the same part, which does no damage, but blood flies off (even if it is a PERFECT shot). It can happen any time.. when shooting any class on any part of the body, sometimes the bullet just does not register, but blood still shows when you shoot them. Usually it's when shooting an enemy from the side, like running past you, in my experience.

It can be frustrating because if someone is standing still and I shoot them and it does not register, I need to move to a different angle for the shot to actually work. Because it's basically telling me that staying where I am is at an angle where I'm just not going to land a shot. I need to move around and try again.

Longtime players of sniper will know what I mean when some shots just don't register atall.
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Old 08-06-2011, 05:41 AM   #39
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cl_interpolate 0

You know what, though? I'm fucking tired of all these snipers constantly reverting to the "sniping is HAAAARD ;_;" excuse. Guess what, faggots? The same problems you have affect everyone else. We need to learn how to aim to compensate for lag, and while it's not quite the difference between 0 damage and 500 damage as a sniper, it IS a big deal. Bringing up that flaw earns you no sympathy because everyone else has to put up with the same shit you do. So stop it. Learn to aim.

Or go the 'pro' sniper route and toggle a aimbot/wallhack.

Hell, only something like 1/8 people in FF do already.
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Old 08-06-2011, 06:01 AM   #40
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Right, so here's what's going on when you shoot at a moving target:

On your screen you see a player moving in a certain direction. Your client gets regular updates from the server about where the player is and where he's going, and what animations he's playing. If you miss that data, the client makes a guess.

You shoot. The client fires a hit effect for whatever texture is under your crosshair. If it's a player model, you get blood. The client send a message to the server saying where you shot, from where, and in what direction.

The server gets that shot, looks at its own version of the scene, and decides if there was a hit or not. To be fair to high-ping bastards, it also compensates for your ping. If your ping is 120ms, it will look at where that player was 120ms ago and see if your shot should have hit him.

So a missed shot could be a mistake in prediction caused by packet loss, a lag spike causing the ping compensation to throw the shot off in time, or a number of other things. Also, the hit boxes are literally boxes, and will never match up perfectly to the visual model.

In future patches (I think), we are going to have blood effects trigger only when a player takes damage, which gets rid of the "blood but no hit" issue
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