03-10-2010, 11:45 PM | #41 |
AKA LittleAndroidMan
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The only difference between FF's 'jump queue' and TFC's +wait script (or +mwheeldown), is in FF, you can hold down space, as opposed to spamming jump. TFC's bhop was only SLIGHTLY less intuitive. FF has made bunnyhop accessible to more people by hardcoding it into the game, rather than requiring a script.
If you seriously find issue with that... well, I think you need to rethink your stance.
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03-11-2010, 12:29 AM | #42 |
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Bunnyhopping isn't hardcoded into Fortress Forever.
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03-11-2010, 01:08 AM | #43 |
sKeeD
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03-11-2010, 02:51 AM | #44 |
Stuff Do-er
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For the same reasons people are better at bhopping than other people in FF: air control, strafe jumping, etc. No one was better than other people at timing their jumps in TFC (unless you count having a bind as being "better").
The point is, jump timing in TFC didn't take skill. It took knowledge. It's entirely false to say that FF bunnyhopping takes less skill than TFC bunnyhopping because of the jump queue or autojump. If you want to compare and contrast air acceleration, friction, bunnyhop caps, etc of the two games, go ahead. But, timing your jumps requires the same amount of skill between TFC and FF: zero.
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03-11-2010, 04:59 AM | #45 |
AKA LittleAndroidMan
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The fact that you don't need to go onto a third-party website to download a script to exploit a bug in the game code... well yeah....
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03-11-2010, 03:11 PM | #46 | |
pew pew cry Bridget
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03-11-2010, 04:13 PM | #47 |
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It's all in the strafe!
People had jump scripted or bound to the mousewheel, so any timing required was removed, and that cannot be argued. Sure, jumping is THE most important factor as it enables bunny hopping; however, the jumping DOES NOT build speed, it opens the path for speed manipulation. That is accomplished by strafing. Everything from speed gain and speed maintence is done by strafe control, not jump control. The ONLY thing(s) that separates a novice from an expert bunny hopper (in TFC, Fortress Forever, CPMA, Warsow etc.) is the way in which they strafe...and map knowledge, I suppose. And thus to the point: having auto-timed jumps does not equate to auto-bunny hopping! Last edited by Player; 03-11-2010 at 04:15 PM. |
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03-11-2010, 04:53 PM | #48 |
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Back to the original point of this thread...
How about increasing the base movement speed of the scout by 20 units, without changing the bhop cap. It'd make scout better for newbies without drastically changing the effect in competitive play. And remove the jump pad, bring back caltrops. |
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03-11-2010, 06:39 PM | #49 |
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I wouldn't give up the jump pad for caltrops. They're useless.
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03-11-2010, 06:48 PM | #50 | |
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Using duck, navigating around the hard cap, using your mouse, and using strafe are separate from the jump timing, and all certainly do require skill.
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03-11-2010, 07:58 PM | #51 |
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Have to completely agree with Zelenjava on the jump timing topic. The first thing you had to do was time your jumps which was a skill in itself, the whole incorporating pressing jump along with your strafe keys made it even harder.
Jump timing was a HUGE thing for keeping a consistent speed, having to perfect that along with crouching is what made good bunnyhoppers the best bunnyhoppers and I really don't know why that point is being argued upon because it's more fact than speculation. On topic though I think it would be more of an incentive to cap if you got 10Kills for capping a flag, nobody cares about scores they care about kills. Last edited by wakka; 03-11-2010 at 08:01 PM. |
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03-11-2010, 08:51 PM | #52 |
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03-11-2010, 09:15 PM | #53 |
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in which case i think we need to address that. we want people to care about their score more than their k/d ratio.
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03-11-2010, 11:25 PM | #54 |
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Mervaka: Well the easiest way to do that is make it so you can't see the number of kills by other players (only your own). I can't think of another solution where players would pay more attention to the score.
Even score is kind of slanted though. I mean a player can do 95% of the footwork on moving a flag, then if someone comes in and caps it, they get the 1000 points. |
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03-11-2010, 11:32 PM | #55 |
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Fortress Points are useless, that cap benefits the entire team.
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03-11-2010, 11:50 PM | #56 | |
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EDIT: By the way, all that skill is still not really a function of the jump timing itself, it's a function of the brick wall hard cap.
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03-12-2010, 12:13 AM | #57 | |
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03-12-2010, 01:33 AM | #58 | |
pew pew cry Bridget
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To get back on topic. The real issue is simply that FF is extremly easy as it is, especially scout. Most new players who take to playing organised CTF will take to scout because its the easiest. Secondly, if you do make these classes any easier you really will lose the core of the pickup community, these channels are less and less active and people rarely play including myself. Last edited by zelenjava; 03-12-2010 at 01:37 AM. |
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03-12-2010, 02:54 AM | #59 | |
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How can all classes become easier? One class counters the other. So if it's easier to play engy, it's harder to play scout. If the game is balanced, how does making the game easier to play cause people to leave? If, in your opinion, the classes are not balanced, how should it be fixed? |
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03-12-2010, 11:36 AM | #60 | |
pew pew cry Bridget
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alternatives, beginners, incentive, movement, scout |
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