The "Bitch About Updates" Thread.

[Circuitous]

Originally Posted by TACO-BELL

+1

It should be open-sourced, so the mod doesnt get hijacked again by a developer who only cares about clans or any other single aspect of the game. A spin-off TF mod based on FF still has potential to capture some audience if its a good idea and well managed.

But rather than another FF dev team, open sourcing needs to happen because nothing called "Fortress Forever" is ever going to have more than 50 players ever again. The name is ruined in the gaming world and no one is going to come back to try "version 3.0" unless it is called something else and handled differently (by different people). 2.0 became such a mishandled disaster that FF's name is done for.

There's a couple of dev guys from Custom TF (the most active reg TF mod afaik) who approached the FF team and asked if they could port their mod over to the FF code base. The FF team refused. Which seems really silly-- since they apparantly didn't have any intention of further development themselves. At this stage the FF team should not be refusing to share/work with other developers.

You can't open-source Source mods unless you have no Valve code in it.

And guess what! FF uses Valve code.

[quote=MulchmanMM]It's been asked on hlcoders. you can't release valve's source code.[/url]

This from the dev forums.

That's why it's not open source, and why it never will be, and also why the CustomTF team were refused access to the code.

The mod has never been "hijacked" by a developer, either. The only issue came with adding new people to the SVN/website/what-have-you, while the people in charge maintained only limited contact. This has been fixed, and with the changes that have been made internally, there's no chance of it happening again.

Beyond that, really the only people FF could ever be "ruined for" would be die-hard TFC vets who got on the bandwagon early and were turned off, and what few people have found and tried it since the initial release. FF hasn't even tried to get mass appeal yet, no real advertising campaign has been launched (yet), and there's still a huge number of people who've probably never even heard of it yet. FF isn't dead in the water.

As for no intention of continuing development... development is still going strong. For what few people we have, a lot of work is still being done, and the next patch isn't far off.

Basically what I'm saying is you're too high up on your horse to really have any clue.

[Credge]

So you're saying there's a chance FF will become open-source?

[TACO-BELL]

Originally Posted by Circuitous

Basically what I'm saying is you're too high up on your horse to really have any clue.

Dude I loved this mod and tried to promote it. A week after 2.0 was released I called foul and realized that this version was going to destroy the mod if it wasn't fixed QUICK. But all you guys cared about was 'clan play'. So now there's no players and I'm the one who doesn't have a clue? It doesn't make sense to say this to me man- that should be obvious by now.

However, interersting info about open sourcing. Thanks for that, I didn't realize. I heard the reason FF wasn't shared was over dev team fears that it could split the FF playerbase. But its interesting to hear another side. I guess the situation is pretty bad

[Credge]

Originally Posted by TACO-BELL

But all you guys cared about was 'clan play'.

2.0 ruined clan play and didn't really address any of the things that were issues in clan play anyway. Things like...

HW being broken
The game revolving around SG's

Those were really the only things wrong with clan play. Now, though, there's a much bigger list of things. The biggest feature of 2.0, the jump pad, was introduced to give scouts a use in pub play .

[zE]

Tbh open source doesn't means success look at ETF, and imo 2.0 didnt ruin the mode, look at 2.0 first impression foruns almost all plp liked it, about this being all about claners, i have to agree and to disagree, i disagree cuse if was to please claners it would be = to TFC and the learning curve would be a lot highter than it is , but some aspects of it like reducing sniper power which was one of the favorite classes of pub gaming in TFC, taking the infection spreading etc all stuff that make pubbing a lot of fun i have to agree that was to please claners mainly..

[Credge]

Originally Posted by =AS= zE

Tbh open source doesn't means success look at ETF, and imo 2.0 didnt ruin the mode, look at 2.0 first impression foruns almost all plp liked it, about this being all about claners, i have to agree and to disagree, i disagree cuse if was to please claners it would be = to TFC and the learning curve would be a lot highter than it is , but some aspects of it like reducing sniper power which was one of the favorite classes of pub gaming in TFC, taking the infection spreading etc all stuff that make pubbing a lot of fun i have to agree that was to please claners mainly..

I'll put it to you like this. The patch that, according to you guys, addressed league play has made many clan players quit playing simply because the things that needed to be fixed to begin with were not fixed. If the patch was supposed to be for league players then it wouldn't have had things like the jump pad. Instead, it would have focused entirely on tweaking things already in the game and making them balanced instead of throwing the entire balance of the game on its side.

[zE]

Dunno about USA, but what have decimated the clans on Europe was not the patch, cuse after the patch have been released i ve seen a boom in clan players around, what suport a mode isn t the amount of clan players but the amount of pubs and pubers, the pubers are the ones who later on will "maybe" join a clan and will move to clanstyle gaming, the clanstyle scene is getting weaker cuse the pub scene is getting weaker too. One thing is related to the other, and tbh just 5% of the clanners that i know dislike the 2.0 and now the game is more balanced imo.

[squeek.]

Just to pop in here... I don't think the unbalance of the game (more just the SG and the lack of a HW; the rest of clanplay is balanced quite nicely) led to the downfall of clans (fx., .o`, fellas, etc). I see it more as a lack of growth. As zE said, there were no NEW clanners, just old ones returning for 2.0. Without new clanners/teams forming... it's just the same ol' same ol' for the leaguing clans, and there is no incentive to stay in.

But, hindsight is more gooder an' that. Start complaining about updates, please.

[chilledsanity]

2.0 ruined clan play and didn't really address any of the things that were issues in clan play anyway.

If that's really the case, it makes me wonder who 2.0 was aimed at. While I think things like the jump pad and pyro hovering were interesting, I think 2.0 also broke AvD play. It's sounding like the patch was aimed at CTF pubbing.

[Credge]

Well, to put it bluntly, 2.0 is the reason why I'm no longer serious about league play. 1.11 was fine and dandy for league play, and the only things that needed to be addressed were explosion radius (needed for all styles of play), HW (borked him even further, especially for league play), and SG reliance (still there). Besides that, nothing else was needed and any further tweaks would simply cause more imbalance.

It was fairly obvious that offense had problems in pub play, and that is mainly what 2.0 addressed. Offense for pubs.

Originally Posted by chilledsanity

If that's really the case, it makes me wonder who 2.0 was aimed at. While I think things like the jump pad and pyro hovering were interesting, I think 2.0 also broke AvD play. It's sounding like the patch was aimed at CTF pubbing.

Pretty much. Whether the intent was there or not, the end result was CTF pubbing.

[Circuitous]

AfterShock was hoping CTF would help clanplay and that would help the game as a whole - he was wrong. Unfortunately, we lacked the manpower to make any kind of "quick fix."

It's been a long time coming, I know, but it's coming. If it's too late for you, all I can say is I'm sorry.

[chilledsanity]

Well it certainly was aimed at offense. I've kind of stopped playing now because when I can find an AvD game, it's so friggin easy playing on offense, it's kind of ridiculous. You talk about the game revolving around sg's, well in AvD, they're still a joke for snipers. That combined with all the offensive capabilites makes for a short game.

That's why I'm really keeping my fingers crossed for the bots in 2.1. I'll probably be able to balance the games with giving defense a disproportionate number of players.

It's been a long time coming, I know, but it's coming. If it's too late for you, all I can say is I'm sorry.

I don't think anyone's upset with how long this has taken, everyone should realize how hard this stuff is. But yeah like you said, the focus on CTF pubbing seems to divide almost everyone.

[Nuk3m]

PATCH

[Jester]

Not completely sure, but it did in TFC as well. In TFC though, you could see the shotgun blast hitting each time you shot a round.

[Nezumi]

It's the same in FF.

Also, here's an update for y'alls that aren't in the beta. Cacti is now named ff_anticitizen.

(wow, feels so wierd to be on the wrong end of this thread)

[Nuk3m]

Originally Posted by RocketRunner

Anticitizen? What is this? Half-Life 2?

lol! sorry nezumi, someone in the beta forums called it.. lol

[greenday5494]

Originally Posted by RocketRunner

I have to ask, why the hell does the AC use 12-Gauge Shotshells? I'm not saying that it's stupid (If there ever was such a minigun, that would rock!), but it seems unrealistic. The HWGuy should use bullets like the Sniper.

dont bring up realism in FF. Ever.

[Credge]

Originally Posted by Nezumi

It's the same in FF.

Well, 2.0 has individual bullets per round spent instead of a shotgun blast per round spent. It's one of the reasons why he's sort of gimpy right now, besides the whole charge thing... although getting rid of the charge thing would make it fine.

[Nezumi]

Originally Posted by RocketRunner

Anticitizen? What is this? Half-Life 2?

Holy crap, someone actually understands the name! (not sarcasm)

[Skanky Butterpuss]

still a pewp name