why removed infection spreading?

[Private_Joker]

Originally Posted by public_slots_free

i say make it a cvar

I think that's an excellent idea; if spreading were variable, it could be disabled for public server purposes but enabled for more organized clan scrimmages.

Originally Posted by Paft

Only newbs see it as a vital tactic and the medikit as a "weapon". It's for first aid. First aid = Medic

He who cures can make ill

-Joker

[GhOsT]

Making things like this a cvar is a bad idea. It means that some pubs will use it and some pubs won't making it so players will have a different experience from server to server.

[Dr.Uudge]

Originally Posted by Saint Thoth

Without the infection spreading, these elements are gone. There’s no need for the enemy to worry about the infected player, nor for said player to worry about being infected, and no need for the medic to even think about fixing snipers on his way out of the fort. No one has to weigh the value of their current position over the risk of infecting or blocking the rest of the team.

Removing aspects of game play is exactally what made TF2 suck, it dumbs down the game, and oversimplifies it until eventually you’re down to Toystory Forts.

eh, i'll try not to bash TF2, here:

TF2 is not very entertaining, not because it removed any old aspects of gameplay, but because it removed _SKILL MULTIPLIER_ aspects; there were people who were complaining that removing grens and infection made TF2 not very entertaining; i say yetishit; infection and grens weren't what made TF mods popular, it were the skill mulitpliers - with practice, you could engage in a DM with an opponent or had the option of escaping if you felt you were not up for a fight; if TF2 had implimented other forms of skill multipliers, like being able to double rocket jump against walls to reach higher grounds, it wouldn't be so not very entertaining

now it takes some effort to spread infection; if infections should be spreadable, snipers should get spreadable tags every time a tagged player touches another player and spread the tag; they're as good as dead anyways, similar to infected, and it's only a matter of time

[Hammock]

I stayed away from this thread because I had a pretty good idea it would just be a bunch of people whining about such a simpley used ability to create havok, taken away.

Infection spreading is soo useless. I hate infection anyways to begin with. And this is coming from a guy who played medic 99% of the time back in TFC, and about 80% of the time in FF.

Medics can be played for O and D, I choose O primarily but have been known to do some D with them.

I just get disgusted watching my own teammates doing nothing but playing cat and mouse with the enemy while I'm trying to cap the flag.

The people they are primarily infecting are the ones most accessible from the yard. They almost never run down to the flag room where infecting is actually more usefull. No they infect people outside upper respawn doors. Why? Because they don't have what it takes to accomplish the easy "hide+surprise+infect+run" technique against players who are more prepared for the enemy. Flag room defenders are always more aware of what they're doing, noob or vet.

No instead infecting is done only where they can try and make their escape so they can run in from another point to try and surprise someone else. I guess that in itself takes skill, to continuously make contact and not die. What doesn't take skill is the complete randomness of spreading the infection. Either from an unstoppable moron that doesn't know what he's doing, or by accident when two of you run around a corner and collide, or maybe just knocked together from an explosion.

Either way the spreading of infection is skilless. Since FF is a more skill based game it would make sense to remove a completely skilless tool.

The arguement of removing gernades because that causes grief is ridiculous. Gernades are limited, even if you're sitting by a pack. Infecting is unlimited and a cowardly strategy that involves infect+running in hopes that it'll spread. Unless you're one of those people that only infects on a last ditch effort like someone said above, I'll do the same thing.. a fatty at a choke point or something.

It's not even that effective and this is why it was removed, it was ANNOYING, not effective. These suggestions to handle the situation "differently" aren't made with a lot of thought behind them either, only with the intent of offering an alternative so they can keep what they so desperately want.

Instantly killing a person for entering a spawn once infected is ridiculous. It gives a medic an instant kill, it might not go up on his score board, but he got the kill instantly. And if it doesn't go towards his score the medic himself has been robbed of 1 good infect.

And what about a soldier who's defending the basement/flag room by himself. If a medic gets down to him and legitimately infects him, he'd have to suicide. Even though no other people risk being infected from the spread because he's by himself, he can't enter his own spawn because the gun will kill him. In TFC I could live for 10+ minutes infected and timing my runs to the respawn after each wave of the enemy.

Then the suggestion for removing the infection once entering spawn again isn't really fair to a medic who did get a legitimate infect on the guy.

Same scenario, medic makes it to the basement in 2fort infects the soldier who's alone down there, takes his death but hopes the solly will be hugging respawn or suicides for an opening. But once he dies, the solly runs to respawn for a cure? Not fair to the legitimate medic infection. And no gap will be created.

Exponential increase to damage over a period of time to ultimately give a quick death to the infected is stupid too. Yes there's other instant death abilities out there. The demo's detpack (which he has 1 of and needs 5-10 seconds to set off, and then hope there's people around for it to hit). The sniper, his only effective tool is instant kill, from long range though and requires skill to aim to get it. The spy has instant kill, but the skill is required to get behind a guy for the kill.

If the medpack were to ultimately kill a guy quickly after infection because damage is multiplied, the medic would be a walking powerhouse. Since the medic can infect from any side, any angle. And he can die, and make it back to the enemy base within 5 seconds with his concs. You would see a mass increase to the medic class with this suggestion, you'll see a shit load of people infecting, and you'll see more defensive medics to combat it. Slowing the actual intent of the game down... to cap a flag.

I had to laugh at that well just turn FF on to kill the team infectors. ROFL, turning FF has it's own set of problems completely, instead of team infecting you've opened up team killing. Not to mention will FF be turned on permanently for the server or just 10 seconds to kill the guy? If it's only periodic then there'd have to be an admin around, and the admin could just kick the guy at that point.

Like I said, these suggestions were not made with any real thought to how it'd effect other game play. Just to suit their own desires.

And as for the admin's responsibilities... yes it's their job to police the servers, but no server has admins running 24/7. Especially in FF where there's no more than 100 people a night atm. So everyone's giving suggestions to fix a problem, layer after layer of problem fixing. Well do this then to combat that, but then there'll be problems over here, so we'll add this in to solve that.

No the devs did a good thing, instead of adding layer after layer of fixes to a problem and new problems that'll arrise, they made it simple and removed the underlying problem. contagious infecting was a skilless tool that was over abused.

It in no way has taken away from a legitimate infection here and there to get guys standing in choke points. It doesn't take away the fact that you could still infect an entire team. It just takes away the reliance of stupidity or accidents.

Cheers,
Hammock

[Dr.Satan]

i think that pretty much summed it up well!

[JactusCack]

Its a shame lamers have ruined this feature cos being a medic I've always liked this feature.

[JECS]

infection spreading doesnt take any skill so lets remove it. lets remove hw too. and sentry guns. pyro kills in about 3 seconds so that should be gone too. sniper can 1 hit kill and its pretty easy to do, take that off. demo has dets, remove those. spy can 1 hit. soldier can shoot rockets faster now and kill snipers pretty much instantly, take away rockets. mirvs are too strong, get rid of those.

funny. infection spreading does a lot less than each of those things. and now its gone. if people get infected and there is nobody to cure them then maybe one of them should get a clue and go medic. thats what i always did in tfc. nothing to fight off a medic like another medic. having the infections would encourage the other team, which is lacking a medic, to get one. its not like the medic really has a lot going on for him. he has a shotgun that is rarely used. a nailgun which is used mainly for sgs (which doesnt do anything unless they are left alone) and concs, which are only useful if you intend to go after the flag. for some people, like me, the flag is unimportant. i would rather see how high i can get my kdr. shotguns are very strong and accurate right now and after they get fixed the medic will be about as useless as the spy.

i still say if you dont want to get infected go play tf2

[GhOsT]

Originally Posted by JECS

...which are only useful if you intend to go after the flag. for some people, like me, the flag is unimportant. i would rather see how high i can get my kdr...

You are really playing the wrong type of game if that is all you care about.

[barronofhellion]

that was sarcasim dude

[Ramones]

Why not spreading by chance?

Let's say 100% and 1 player always infects 2 players.

                             P1
                  |---------------------|
                  |                     |
                 P2                     P3
           |---------|              |---------|
           |         |              |          |
           P4       P5             P6          P7
        |-----|   |-----|        |-----|    |-----|
        |     |   |     |        |     |    |     |
       P8     P9 P10   P11      P12   P13  P14   P15

After the 4th Generation: 15 infected people (it's a 16vs16 game! )



Now 50% and still 1 player infects 2 players:

                            P1
                  |---------------------|
                  |                     |
                 P2                     X
           |---------|       
           |         |            
           P4        X           
        |-----|         
        |     |        
       P8     X

After the 4th Generation: 4 infected people! woohoo!


Result:
There's still a high chance of spreading the infection, but you can't kill a "whole team" easily.

Don't remove infection spreading. Just nerf it please.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by JactusCack

Its a shame lamers have ruined this feature cos being a medic I've always liked this feature.

QFFT!!!!

[barronofhellion]

no its a shame people actually bitch about a feature that is cool... if you have a tard on your team that runs in spawn whilst infected ... that means your teams a tard... if you have a teamate that terminates himself opon infections ( ie runing headon into a enemy nest ) then you have a good team... its that fucking simple... if you have a tard that is runing around on purpose with an infection in your base ... vote kick... then if he wonders why he got kicked... you say, gtfo while infected and he learns not to do it again... or gets banned via voteban... but this mod does not include the voting feature so instead of addeding more features they chose to remove more features...

[greenday5494]

seriously leave it in: look at all this controvery it stirred up, a 6-page thread. no one complained while it was in, the main thing to remeber with infection spreading, the golden rule:
dont complain about people being infected, either be a medic or deal.
(yes that is from D2F)
that is what it should be about. and, i hate the people who just run around killing people, worrying about their K: DR, to make themselves look "cooler"..... in an online game....

[Skanky Butterpuss]

there was plenty of controversy when they announced that they would put teleporters in and that worked out fine. there were 20 pages of controversy about bhopping on the beta forums and that worked out ok. shit there was a 10 page thread about dumbledore being gay. havent you realized that the people on this forum will argue about ANYTHING?

[Saint Thoth]

That was a feature they chose never to integrate, this was a feature they had working just fine and then arbitrarily removed. There’s a world of difference there (never mind the fact that teleporters were arbitrarily added a few years back, while medic infection has been integral to gameplay for nearly a decade). It’s ruined a lot of maps, not to mention my faith in the future of the mod to avoid the pitfals of its more popular retail counterpart.

[Hammock]

Since they haven't actually removed medic infection. They haven't removed an integral part of the game.

They've modified it to remove the lack of skill it requires to spread the infection.

And this has ALWAYS been a controversial topic, there have always been spawn infectors who stand and infect everyone on their team. Infact I'd have to say this and door blocking are the two biggest complaints I ever see as an admin.

They in no way have taken away your ability to infect. You guys are all just upset because they took away your easy tool to annoy people, because despite what these mass medic infectors think. It has never done anything but cause me to suicide outside my upper spawn. I run out in 5 seconds after that WITH full gernades. Since the spread never gets to me in the basement or flag room, where it would actually remove me from my position and effect your team's ability to cap the flag, there's no real point to it.

These people having the infection spread to them, aren't even in positions they're just roaming around. Ergo completely useless.

This was an annoyance tool nothing else. Some used it legitimately, but most chose to cause grief with it, ie: Spawn infecting.

I'm happy with the change, I prefer someone to mulch me anyways instead of infect and run. There's no real honor there, nor much skill.

Even back in my TFC days as a medic harassing the snipers, I very seldom infected them. Infact I viewed it as a "lost encounter" if all I could do was infect. I'd only view it as a win for me if the sniper dies. And I used nades and shotty for that.

Cheers,
Hammock

[Dr.Satan]

Originally Posted by Skanky Butterpuss

shit there was a 10 page thread about dumbledore being gay.

He's totally gay...has to be!

[Saint Thoth]

They in no way have taken away your ability to infect.

There’s a WORLD of difference between the ability to infect one guy, and the ability to infect one guy, and effectively have denial of area around him, or risk infecting more and more members of the team, coupled with the potential to in turn infect the entire team. There’s a world of difference between the ability to infect players, one at a time, or potentially disassembled an entire tight nit defense with one well placed infection and a conc grenade. There’s a massive difference, between simply ignoring infections, and waiting to die, and having to weigh your position against the value of your team‘s mobility and the potential infection. There's a great deal of difference between a game where you have to go medic to save the team from destruction, and one where you have no motivation to heal anyone. There’s such an incredible amount of difference, that removing the spreading of the infection, is tantamount to removing the infection entirely.

…and on a side note:

“Dumbledore is gay, actually,” - J. K. Rowling, Reuters

...yes, that thread makes all other debates on the net, neigh, in the entire world, null and void.

[Hammock]

Too bad everything you listed occurs in non critical areas of the base. Areas that are open and not really a concern to defend. Areas that where if you get infected and suicide you'd be back in your position within seconds.

The only time infections are usefull is when they occur in crucial points of the map.

2fort for example.

Infection spreading only occurs upstairs outside upper respawn and ramp room. Infecting can occur in the basement, but that's an individual medic infecting an individual defender.

Very rarely will an infected person run down and cause a spread to this defender in the basement.

So the infection spreading in a useless area is nothing but an annoyance, and doesn't produce any real effective results. Since the person who's going to deny you entry is already in the basement avoiding all the stupidness at surface. You're really only acting like mosquitos against many less focused people.

Cheers,
Hammock

[Dr.Satan]

Originally Posted by Saint Thoth

…and on a side note:

“Dumbledore is gay, actually,” - J. K. Rowling, Reuters

...yes, that thread makes all other debates on the net, neigh, in the entire world, null and void.

you totally have to post a link to that article!