Laser Grenade - Too Strong?

[Agent Buckshot Moose]

I tested the nail grenade yesterday. The fact that you die if you just hold it and stand there is a bit silly. Damage in the center of the grenade needs to be way lowered. The rest seems fine though.

[Ragdoll]

I think the main issue with the laser grenade is that the laser grenade and the nail grenade are fundamentally different in function.
The nail grenade is meant to deter people from staying in one area. If you're within enough of a radius of it, you'll try and get out because you'll be taking plenty of damage from the nails and the eventual explosion. However, if you're determined enough and quick enough, you can move through it with no real issues unless you're low on health.
The laser grenade is meant to prevent people from moving through an area. If you try and move through the area it covers, unless you time it correctly (difficult to do when under fire or when moving too fast to stop soon enough), you will get fucked over by multiple laser swipes. People are used to the way the nail grenade functions so they try and deal with the laser grenade in the same way and it fucks them over because they're very different weapons. They need to either amount to the same thing or bring the old nails back.

[squeek.]

That's a strange argument. Things need to stay the same because people refuse to adapt?

[XPelargos]

Why haven't you adapted to TF2?

[puts on the flame resistant suit]

[Ragdoll]

Originally Posted by squeek.

That's a strange argument. Things need to stay the same because people refuse to adapt?

No, I'm saying the grenades do different things. The grenades should do the same thing. Just make the nails disappear after they fly for a while and then it's good.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by XPelargos

Why haven't you adapted to TF2?

[puts on the flame resistant suit]

That's a different argument.

The argument, "We need to go back to the nail grenade because it's better and I like it more" is way different than, "We need to go back to the nail grenade because people are used to the way the nail grenade functions and haven't been able to adapt to the new change."

[XPelargos]

Originally Posted by squeek.

That's a different argument.

The argument, "We need to go back to the nail grenade because it's better and I like it more" is way different than, "We need to go back to the nail grenade because people are used to the way the nail grenade functions and haven't been able to adapt to the new change."

You make a good point.

Now I see where the whole issue and thread came up.

Duly noted, sir.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by Ragdoll

No, I'm saying the grenades do different things. The grenades should do the same thing. Just make the nails disappear after they fly for a while and then it's good.

Why should they do the same thing?

[Ragdoll]

Because it makes the soldier more powerful with less skill required on defense.

[squeek.]

That's an even stranger argument.

[XPelargos]

This is a linguistics problem, not logic at the moment, squeek.

Frege's "Sense and Reference" would be helpful right about now. We don't know what "it" refers to.

[FDA_Approved]

Originally Posted by squeek.

That's an even stranger argument.

Lol, squeek seems like a good argument to me.

Because it makes the soldier more powerful with less skill required on defense.

He was refering to lasers I believe.

The soldier is a good solid class. I don't even think he really needs a secondary. But giving him lasers was no way to fix that.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by XPelargos

This is a linguistics problem, not logic at the moment, squeek.

Frege's "Sense and Reference" would be helpful right about now. We don't know what "it" refers to.

True enough. What is "it"? I assumed "it" was the nail grenade.

[Ragdoll]

Fucking lasers. The whole time we've been talking about the goddamn lasers.

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by Ragdoll

Fucking lasers. The whole time we've been talking about the goddamn lasers.

Originally Posted by Ragdoll

No, I'm saying the grenades do different things. The grenades should do the same thing. Just make the nails disappear after they fly for a while and then it's good.

I believe lasers are fixable without reverting to nails, as nail grenades have their own set of problems.

[Ragdoll]

All right, look, which one has nails? Do laser grenades have nails? No. I was talking about nail grenades right there.
All pointless bickering aside, nails are better balance-wise than lasers. Lasers make soldiers much too strong.

[squeek.]

Yes, but that can, and will, be changed. Nail grenades are worse design-wise, in that they have inherent problems that would need to be fixed by changing the design of the grenade itself (like by adding defined arms instead of a non-interactive nail pattern and removing the frustration-causing explosion at the end, which is what the laser grenade essentially is).

The design flaw of the laser grenade is that the center deals significant damage and is therefore too easy to use when denying a single point (like a flag). Again, that can, and will, be solved.

[Ragdoll]

The design flaw of the laser grenade is that it deals significant damage in a short period of time, instead of significant damage over a long period of time. How are you going to fix that without making it useless?

[squeek.]

But that wasn't even true of the nail grenade, as you could get out of its range pretty quickly and the most damaging part was the explosion. Only something like the napalm gren is even capable of dealing damage over a long period of time; in other words, the gren would either have to follow you or deal damage over time indirectly.

But, one thing that will happen is that the laser grenade will no longer deal damage every single tick, but instead will deal damage based on time. This will allow the damage to be controlled much more precisely and make it so running through a laser will no longer instagib you.

[eomoyaff]

Here's an arguement.

FUCK LASER GRENADES.

Soldiers are fine without them. It's been tested and tested and tested.

As I've stated before many times, the laser nade now, the way it is, makes the soldier look like a panzy. It takes away from the soldiers main feature (Which is the RPG, obv) by allowing the shitty laser grenade do create half the soldiers kills. It can be spammed/griefed easily and really takes away from the immersion of the game. Don't ask how, you know the answer. You know how pickups work.

New idea IMO: How about you make the secondary a massive shit that the soldier takes, and every thing that passes the soldier during this time disrupts the opponent and causes them to vomit carrot juice because that's what i would assume they would be drinking prior to going for any objective.

Just kidding, troll - troll -troll - troll

But seriously, Fuck the laser grenades. If the laser's damage doesn't nerf in the next update, you're a douche Mcdoogle.