why removed infection spreading?

[GhOsT]

Originally Posted by DrEvil

Without someone to cure, many people resort to suicides and such just out of spite for the medic. Curing is useless when their role typically means they aren't available to the category of people that need it. Pubbers might do the occasional medic on d, but not very often.

If there isn't a friendly medic right there when I get infected I usually just kill myself. It's not even out of spit either. It's just faster than running around trying to find a friendly medic. Since I'm usually on defense it means i spawn right there again with full health/ammo/grenades anyway.

In matches infection spreading was even more worthless since everyone has the same mantra and at least know to stay away from teammates while infected if you don't have time to kill yourself before the next rush. However, infecting a single player still has value since it usually means that eventually the defender will be out of position (unless you happen to be playing a front line position and your offensive medic runs by and heals you).

[GhOsT]

Originally Posted by barronofhellion

-edit the only reason medic is a attacker is because of the conc abuse, before people figured it out it originally was a mid-line role.. both offence and defence... that was back in the day though when tf 1st outed

Unfortunately TFC transformed the medic into an offensive powerhouse due to concs and how powerful frag grenades are.

[barronofhellion]

so very true, i hate the medic class .(only because of conc abuse).. but i still think that they should have that option because thats what made the class cool...

[Dr.Satan]

You know as much as I love the medic infection...it's not like they nerfed the whole thing...

I'm going to say this, but I want to make perfectly clear that I am against having nerfed the spread!!

I personally never infected to infect others...hell the ONLY time I actually do infect is if there is a fatty at the front door or as a last chance cause i'm pinned down and know i'm dead. In this senario; i'm not concerned about who he then infects, or even the pts. for that matter, I'm mainly hoping he will suicide so that my team mates or myself have that small window to get in. To be honest I don't really see why people are this upset (although I do also) really you can still infect and it still has the same effect...they either die OR suicide...either way you get the same result as with the original infection. Only change here is that IF that person is dumb enough to go into respawn, you don't get extra kills for their stupidity.

I tend to look at 2 things for nerf's / upgrades:

1) The impact on a pub atmosphere:

PRO's - Less bitching by everyone, No more free pts., less admining, less claims of admin abuse and having to deal with llama's, Makes the pts. worth it, less pandemonium and confusion, less spamming (chat / teamsay and voice), forces medics into more of an offensive role meaning closer games and more capping, probably some more but i'm out of things right now

CON's - no more free kills, lessens the pandemonium (yes both are both pro and con depending on what position you in)

2) The impact on a league atmosphere:

PRO's - Less spamming (chat and voice), no more free pts. / kills

CON's - I see none here atm as described at the top of this post.

GIVEN THAT, it really isn't that big of a deal. If people have more pro's / con's please feel free to interject here, but I think I covered it pretty well.

~again just for nostalgic reasons I don't LIKE that it's gone, but I see no actual negative impact on the game itself

[greenday5494]

yea, but it pretty much takes away one of the medic's healing ways, as you job is to stop infection, really, and that isnt really important as theres no more spreading.

[GhOsT]

That was always a very minor part of the medic in the grand scheme of things (at least in TFC).

[Dr.Satan]

Originally Posted by greenday5494

yea, but it pretty much takes away one of the medic's healing ways, as you job is to stop infection, really, and that isnt really important as theres no more spreading.

spreading is gone, but you still have to heal the critical members of the D...Just now if they go wandering around the base. It's just one heal instead of 12 accidently / purpose infections as well.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by DrEvil

My opinions are that infection spreading was a skill-less ability most often abused by griefers.

I can't count the number of times on a pub where some jackass gets himself infected and spends the round infecting teammates, and given friendly fire is off most of the time, there isn't a damn thing you can do about it short of chasing him around as a medic yourself or leaving the servers, both of which are retarded options.

Also, medic is an offensive class, infections most often hit defenders. It pulls a medic out of their role to run around and cure infected defenders. Without someone to cure, many people resort to suicides and such just out of spite for the medic. Curing is useless when their role typically means they aren't available to the category of people that need it. Pubbers might do the occasional medic on d, but not very often.

The first point being the most important one. FF is normally off, and there's nothing you can do about griefers if there's no admin. Show your leetness and infect people individually, nobody deserves free kills.

my 2c

If the pyro level 1 fire could spread to teammates, and last until you die, it'd be equally lame too. Same thing in this case, regardless of how long it's been around in TF.

You would be surprised at the effect of chasing a "griefer" around as a medic accomplishes. If they are intentionally infecting, and you stop them from it...the more you do, the more bored/frustrated they will get...and go away. Hell, I'd be willing to bet that most of these so called "griefers" are Myg0t members without the tag. But hey, take the spread out...let the shitballs dictate the course of the game....

[Paft]

You lot don't half go one about somthing so minor. :] Learn to play.

[Iggy]

You say "minor"....but it's not. It's a large portion of the Medic class. In or out, it's going to have a huge effect on the game. My problem with taking it out, is that it doesn't NEED to be taken out. Just apply a little thought to the situation....and the "problem children" can be taken care of. Why should people who really don't care about the game, or the gameplay, dictate key aspects of the game? Especially when there are loyal gamers who abide by the rules of common sense and just want a good game, who are willing to participate in it's features' selection?

The thing that bothers me(well, there are several things about this whole thing that bother me.....) is that as a fairly new to O player, any little disruption to the enemy D is crucial in your (teams) success or failure. If you can't cause some confusion, some chaos....then you are less likely to get the flag out.

True, this won't really affect clan matches....but in pubs...

[richard nixon]

Originally Posted by public_slots_free

i say make it a cvar

I think that's a good idea, but if they ever did implement it..it should be default to OFF

sv_infectionspreading

[Saint Thoth]

It should be on by default! :P

Stopping the plague was a KEY ELEMENT OF THE GAME. Period. An entire aspect of the gameplay is now gone for no good reason.

You've removed the entire medic/counter-medic dynamic on the sole basis that some llama *might* try to abuse it. (Again, I've never seen it happen in FF - even if I had - I woulda gone medic and wracked up points from it. The medic is the second fastest class in the game, so don't give me crap about him not being able to catch the llama.)

You don't even need an admin. One guy goes medic, end of problem - the way it should be ended - by effort, rather than removal of gameplay aspects.

On the more intense maps (say Push), the plague was key to breaking defenses, and a counter medic was key to maintaining them. That was fun, damnit!

I mean hell, we don't even ban for it on the All2Fort servers on Jigglypuff's TFC for that same reason! Getting launched into enemy sentries by friendly snipers is much more annoying! (And don't you DARE remove that too!)

[Paft]

Haha Iggy, rubbish!

I play Medic often and I have never thought a good strategic tactic would be to infect a couple of players and hope it spreads. Because it isn't is it! I don't infect at all tbh, maybe the odd occasion to get back at some one. :> I remember back in the day I use to do it every chance I got just to be a nuissence.

The Medic is about getting in, aiding team mates, getting flag and getting the f**k out.

In TFC when choosing a class in the bit of info under 'abilities' it doesn't even mention infecting.



It's just some gay thing you can do; like crowbars.. you don't particularly need them or come of any use. Only newbs see it as a vital tactic and the medikit as a "weapon". It's for first aid. First aid = Medic

Anyway you douches I'd understand if the ability was scrapped completely but you can still infect....even though it is goalless.

[Saint Thoth]

Bullsh*t… On close and intense maps, medic infection can completely dismantle an enemy defense! Whenever Push turned into a stalemate, it was always an aggressive medic who turned the tide, lest the opposing team pulled a counter medic, in which case it became a dual between the two doctors.

An infected team on Push, and other close-quarter maps, gets plowed through. It doesn’t get the medic a lot of frags – that’s not the point – but it weakens the enemy team, and if they don’t do anything about it, it takes too much time to replenish the front lines.

I’ve seen medics similarly turn games around on Dustbowl, and back in 1.0, multiple times on Cornfield. With players forced to squeeze past one another in bottlenecks, the infection quickly spreads, and the team would again, fall apart, if they never did anything about it.

The plague is a fundamental team play aspect of TF that requires, neigh, forces, a team play response.

[Surrealistik]

You've removed the entire medic/counter-medic dynamic on the sole basis that some llama *might* try to abuse it. (Again, I've never seen it happen in FF - even if I had - I woulda gone medic and wracked up points from it. The medic is the second fastest class in the game, so don't give me crap about him not being able to catch the llama.)

No. On the basis that many llamas *do* try to abuse it constantly and often succeed. You may not have been victimized often by this sort of griefing, but others certainly have, myself included.

You don't even need an admin. One guy goes medic, end of problem - the way it should be ended - by effort, rather than removal of gameplay aspects.

On the more intense maps (say Push), the plague was key to breaking defenses, and a counter medic was key to maintaining them. That was fun, damnit!

First of all, that's only really fun for the infecting medic. Secondly, as mentioned by Dr. Evil, having to go medic to chase around griefers and stop them from ruining the game is silly. The issue shouldn't exist in the first place. Overall I think he, Dr.Satan and Paft do an excellent job at demonstrating why the removal of contagious infections is largely inconsequential if not a good thing.

Admining has not proven to be an effective response to the abuse potential of the contagious infection. In the meanwhile, its removal has a minimal impact on competitive play, reduces griefing and its implications considerably, and the need for admins and admining in the first place. In all there are more compelling reasons to remove the feature than keep it.

[Saint Thoth]

Again, if you are going to remove fundamental game play aspects on the basis that players might abuse them, and admins aren’t going to do anything about it you have to remove:
- Grenades
- Ability to launch other players

…Unlike medics – there’s absolutely nothing other players can do about those problems. Llama’s launch me into freaking SG’s all the time – I’m sick of it! (Honestly, unlike deliberate infectors, which I’ve never seen in FF – I see these guys every other game) Ban the use of rocket launchers and sniper rounds! It has absolutely no affect on game play anyways – so long as you ban them from both teams.

Removing infection spreading removes an entire aspect of game play every bit as much as removing the ability to boost teammates does. It’s the same, bloody, thing.

[Surrealistik]

Again, if you are going to remove fundamental game play aspects on the basis that players might abuse them, and admins aren’t going to do anything about it you have to remove:
- Grenades
- Ability to launch other players

…Unlike medics – there’s absolutely nothing other players can do about those problems. Llama’s launch me into freaking SG’s all the time – I’m sick of it! (Honestly, unlike deliberate infectors, which I’ve never seen in FF – I see these guys every other game) Ban the use of rocket launchers and sniper rounds! It has absolutely no affect on game play anyways – so long as you ban them from both teams.

Removing infection spreading removes an entire aspect of game play every bit as much as removing the ability to boost teammates does. It’s the same, bloody, thing.

Nowhere near the same thing. The actual utility and gameplay relevance of the spreadable infection is far more limited than many of the other concepts you are citing which can be abused to grief others (grenades, rocket launchers, sniper rifles etc...). Secondly, the ease with which they can be effectively abused and the potential for abuse are much less. Thirdly the consistancy with which they actually are abused is also much lower.

[Paft]

Thing is in clan matches the opposing players aren't stupid enough to spread it for you. It's only on pubs you can get away with doing the dirty on em.

[Saint Thoth]

Nowhere near the same thing. The actual utility and gameplay relevance of the spreadable infection is far more limited than many of the other concepts you are citing which can be abused to grief others (grenades, rocket launchers, sniper rifles etc...). Secondly, the ease with which they can be effectively abused and the potential for abuse are much less. Thirdly the consistancy with which they actually are abused is also much lower.

First, the ability to infect an entire team is no less important than the ability to boost teammates, secondly, the potential for infection abuse is much less, as unlike team launching, it is easily countered, and thirdly – utter and total BS – I got launched into the water, and pits, and into enemy SG fire at least ten times today on Dustbowl and Crossover alone – and that’s a slow day! The consistency to abuse the ability to launch teammates is MUCH more common – especially adding the fact that just about every class can do so!

Thing is in clan matches the opposing players aren't stupid enough to spread it for you. It's only on pubs you can get away with doing the dirty on em.

Even in clan matches – on narrow hallway maps and chokepoints, one infected team member prevents movement of the rest of the enemy team through that area. I’ve seen large numbers of team members infected in TFC clan matches as a result of risking it.

In a clan match, anytime the medic manages to get the drop on someone, he infects them – rather than taking the time to shoot and engage in battle. Back on TFC, on 2fort, infecting a sniper was a freaking god-send, as it prevented any other snipers from sharing the deck with his dieing ass. Even if he was the sort to run into traffic and flatten himself to free up the deck, it kept the sniper down far longer than simply shooting him would have. It was during these critical moments that the more entrenched members of sustained offense could be snuck in, and dismantle the interior fort's defenses.

Without the infection spreading, these elements are gone. There’s no need for the enemy to worry about the infected player, nor for said player to worry about being infected, and no need for the medic to even think about fixing snipers on his way out of the fort. No one has to weigh the value of their current position over the risk of infecting or blocking the rest of the team.

Removing aspects of game play is exactally what made TF2 suck, it dumbs down the game, and oversimplifies it until eventually you’re down to Toystory Forts.

[Paft]

You look at infecting way too strategically almost talking sh*t . Most players did it just to be annoying and/or because they couldn't shoot jack.

It was cheap it was a nuisance but now it's GONE.

This thread has ended here for me because it is becoming a case of tl;dr.