08-09-2007, 02:39 PM | #81 | |
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08-09-2007, 05:28 PM | #82 | |
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Case in point: If you put a male and female lion on an island with 10 sheep, those sheep will be dead in under two weeks and the lions will eventually starve to death. The lions aren't going to harmoniously decide not to eat all of them to keep from starving in the long run. The only balance that truly exists in nature is supply and demand. Dogs don't stop screwing because they can't feed their young. Birds don't decide to not eat every last bit of bird seed out of a bird feeder because they want to pace their food supply. If one gorilla tries to mate with another's lady, he's killed. We have just as much right to consume as many resources as we wish as any other creature on this planet. There is nothing good or bad about it. Scuzzy
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08-09-2007, 05:30 PM | #83 | |
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08-09-2007, 05:37 PM | #84 | |
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herbivores and omnivores in an area rich with resources will stop eating when full and just take whats needed at the time (unless it's a hoard and store animal that needs to do so). don't really see fat animals too often (except humans thats what i meant by harmony. |
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08-09-2007, 06:18 PM | #85 | ||
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OCCUPATION 101. One would think a simple task would be, well, simple. Maybe not for simpletons. Last edited by uBeR; 08-09-2007 at 07:25 PM. |
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08-09-2007, 06:45 PM | #86 |
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When do you all think we should consider over population an issue? How many humans does it take? We vastly outnumber other animal populations, why should we continue to rip down forests to support more of humans?
Is it the fact that we are smarter makes us more important or more worthy of space, fuck the rest of them. Or maybe it is because those animals don't have souls like us, God's chosen children? I know how some of you people think, and frankly, it is pompous and disgusting. It is easy to pass off problems as "regional", but in the end the population issue, along with other ones like Global warming and Pollution have only ever been something that requires an effort on the part of humankind because the negative effects they have don't just stay "regional", the water we dirty, the air we pollute and the excess of people we may produce all travel and will end up becoming someone, far across the world, else's problem. |
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08-09-2007, 08:53 PM | #87 | ||
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However, you never answered my question. In order to stop this global water crisis that is being cause by too may people having babies, at what point should a government begin instituting state forced abortions? At what population density per square km should that begin? Scuzzy
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08-09-2007, 08:58 PM | #88 | |
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I did not say that water polution itself is a regional issue. The issue with a group of people not having an adaquate water filtration system to clean their water is a regional issue with government.
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08-09-2007, 09:52 PM | #89 |
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Scuzzy, dont you agree that balance in nature is being distorted by humans? In nature there is balance between species, humans distort that by introducing new species, chopping down trees and whatever else. We are the only species on earth that are rapidly increasing, continuing to distort balance even more; we're born to adapt and we're the most intelligent animal on earth. Just the fact that we're more intelligent and we can think for ourselves and (morally) judge situations/decisions/etc makes us different from animals, don't you agree? — by the way (contra-question), there are humans who lack these skills/features, why are they in your view different from animals?, just the fact that they belong to the animal species ‘homo sapiens*’? — so we will likely find solutions to overcome problems but that doesn't mean that we should reproduce like rabbits.
A very simple solution is the condom, it prevents unwanted children from being born just the same as abortion does, why is it morally so different from abortion? Also, I can't bevieve that you even dare to suggest that ‘in our view’ we should enforce abortions. That makes absolutely no sense, maybe you should look at the term ‘pro-choice’ again, certain ‘non-christians’ believe in a choice to prevent unwanted babies from being born, it doesn't mean enforcing it on others, it means that individuals are given the choice to decide for themselves. * Whoops it was kind of late :P Last edited by Zydell; 08-10-2007 at 10:51 AM. |
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08-09-2007, 10:17 PM | #90 | |
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That's one of the worst arguments I've seen in this thread.
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08-09-2007, 10:34 PM | #91 |
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Salination, pollution, and entrainment don't have to do with overpopulation; they have to do with desalination. But I was right about you not caring anyway.
Evaporation and condensation of seawater is not an effective desalination process, solar induced or otherwise, simply because the amount of water it produces and length of time it takes. By all means, however, use it for your household. I don't know why one would not like Earth replenishing water. The problem, of course, arises because there is more demand than can be replenished. It's pretty simple mathematics to figure out that when more people want a slowly renewable commodity (oil, e.g.), the supply will run out within a matter of time. The scarcity of freshwater is well documented. That's all there is to it. I haven't the right to dictate other's lives. If you want to control population, you have to do so with full regards to human rights. But the problem isn't state-enforced abortions. The premise of your question is wrong and simply loaded. The idea isn't that we abort the babies, the idea is that they don't come to conception in the first place. But again, the problem is twofold. To slow depletion of resources is probably more desirable than actual population control. Global warming, a large contributor to drought and water shortages, is something that can quickly exacerbate a problem. Just simple conservation is also highly effective, economically and environmentally. Two links I suggest if you're interested in both demographic entrapment and carrying capacity (and a lot of reading) are here, here and here There are what's called Cairo Conferences, which discuss the issue of population and population control. Some links that relate to the conferences and population control: http://www.now.org/nnt/01-95/eshoo.html http://www.leeds.ac.uk/demographic_e...htm#Cairo%20II http://www.leeds.ac.uk/demographic_entrapment/page2.htm
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OCCUPATION 101. One would think a simple task would be, well, simple. Maybe not for simpletons. Last edited by uBeR; 08-09-2007 at 10:39 PM. |
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08-09-2007, 10:35 PM | #92 | |
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08-10-2007, 12:33 AM | #93 | |
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08-10-2007, 02:13 AM | #94 | ||||
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However, let's take it a step farther uBer, and believe it is still a problem. Let's assume the following which you have stated in one way or another is true: 1) That uBer is right and overpopulation is the cause of water shortages. 2) Man will not learn to filter water anymore efficiently then they do now, ever. 3) Contraception doesn't prevent an exponential increase in population. If these three things are true, and more and more people are being created, but water continues to be the limited resource you claim it to be, In this situation wouldn't government, at some point, have to step in? Wouldn't forced sterilization, force abortion, or euthanasia be the solutions? Scuzzy
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08-10-2007, 02:15 AM | #95 | |
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08-10-2007, 02:59 AM | #96 | |
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Last edited by YomMamasHouse; 08-10-2007 at 03:09 AM. |
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08-10-2007, 04:51 AM | #97 |
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Because lions only eat things that come onto their territory.
Yup.
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08-10-2007, 05:35 AM | #98 | |||
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Pollution is related to overpopulation, yes. But what I was talking about was pollution coming from the desalination process. Why? Because you were talking about it like a cureall. I was talking about why desalination was not an effective means of hydrating the globe. Do you understand now? Quote:
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No, I don't believe water shortages (or overpopulation) can be solved through contraceptive alone. I've never said I've solved the problem, nor have I stated the problem is solved. It's far from. And, no, government forced abortions or sterilizations (as occurred in Puerto Rico decades ago), or euthanasia would not be acceptable. I don't know how you draw such conclusion.
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08-10-2007, 08:00 PM | #99 | ||||
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Scuzzy
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08-10-2007, 08:09 PM | #100 | ||
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So, to break down what I said "presumptuous and bigoted, but it is also incorrect." Presumptuous - You believe you know how other people think, because they are Christians. Bigoted - You're making general assumtions on how and what Christians believe, and base your accusations against people arguing this point because of their religion. Incorrect - That isn't what Christians believe. Did you mean what I thought you meant, or did I read something into "Or maybe it is because those animals don't have souls like us, God's chosen children? I know how some of you people think" that wasn't there? Scuzzy
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