Laser Grenade - Too Strong?

[FDA_Approved]

Originally Posted by XPelargos

Thread needs more flamewar. I'll start:

Caltrops weren't what made scout fun. It was the movement possibilities from concs.

Gas grenades weren't what made spy fun. It was disguises, feigning death (now cloak) and the knife.

Nail grenade (and laser grenade) weren't what made Soldier fun. It was the rocket launcher and all the associated fragging and jumping that it allows.

Sniper NEVER had a secondary grenade. Why is nobody lamenting the fact that he doesn't have one?

We should not seek to add more and more and more, but remove what isn't necessary.

I agree.

But then you go talking about the pyro. Who actually enjoys playing against a pyro? Honestly when has it ever been fun to be caught on fire and continue to take damage long after you've killed the pyro or he's moved on. Believe it or not, as competitive as pickups are, they're all about having fun. And it's not fun to play against pyros.

[XPelargos]

EXACTLY!

Pyro is banned for precisely the reasons you listed.

And nobody misses him.

Now we've come full circle to my original thesis:

Nobody will miss the laser grenade.

People who love to play soldier will not complain that their class is missing something important.
Also, it will make the soldier more fun to play against.

Case closed, your honor. : D

[Bully]

Caltrops were to stop people chasing you.
Gas was to confuse the enemy. imo that was fun. Especially on snipers.
Nail grens were made for area denial. if you took out anyone with it while defending = bonus. But it also gives time for the def team to rally round in any given situation.

In pickup / clan games no one hardly plays sniper or pyro. So it can be argued that any debate around that relates to pub play. Pubs are an equally important game for the casual player and a door way to lead onto pickups if that person wants to. Designing the game for pickups only will alienate new players.

Removing the sniper / pyro / civ would limit any map designs that are created specifically for these classes in mind.

The objective should not be focused on any one individual element of the game. The objective is capping/defending the flag through teamwork and creative use of the tools you have to hand. This is what should make the game fun.

[angrypyro]

Originally Posted by FDA_Approved

But then you go talking about the pyro. Who actually enjoys playing against a pyro? Honestly when has it ever been fun to be caught on fire and continue to take damage long after you've killed the pyro or he's moved on. Believe it or not, as competitive as pickups are, they're all about having fun. And it's not fun to play against pyros.

It's also not fun to get killed by a pipe trap, backstabbed by a spy, get killed by a sentry gun, and mowed down by a heavy.

[oaties]

Originally Posted by angrypyro

It's also not fun to get killed by a pipe trap, backstabbed by a spy, get killed by a sentry gun, and mowed down by a heavy.

Except those things take skill, and being killed by one makes you feel that you have been beaten due to either the player having more skill than you, or you making a mistake.

Randomly throwing a laser and having people accidentally run into it when they turn a corner, or having one on the flag that instagibs you when you touch it isnt skilled.

[KubeDawg]

I liked the idea of a caltrop grenade rather than how it was actually implemented into TFC and FF. If I had my way, the caltrops would not slow you down, but poison or infect you.

With regards to the Spy's grenade, I definitely liked the old TFC bouncing pill and its effects more than the FF Spy grenade. I think that type of grenade should at least be tested interim to finding another Spy grenade altogether.

Regarding the fact that the Sniper does not have a grenade, I made a proposal a while back about my ideas for it. Either a spike-esque grenade that when thrown on the ground, shoots up similar to a TFC nail grenade, but when it explodes, it shoots all of the spikes out in 360 degrees, dealing minor damage and radio tagging the enemy. OR, a flash grenade, which I think most people were wanting even back in the days of TFC.

EMP grenade should go to the spy, who can disable, but not destroy enemy equipment. A bar on the engineer's screen would appear when wrenching the disabled SG or Dispenser that'd fill up after a certain amount of whacks, thus fixing the buildable.

[FDA_Approved]

Originally Posted by angrypyro

It's also not fun to get killed by a pipe trap, backstabbed by a spy, get killed by a sentry gun, and mowed down by a heavy.

I'm fine with all of those.

I'm not fine with someone coming up to me and inflicting damage by waving a weapon around me and then leaving me with a DoT, regardless of how I react after the initial lighting.

[truplaya]

I think solutions to the overpowered laser nades are....

1. being able to stand on top of it with no damage
2. toning down each beams damage to around 15 hp less than than it is currently.
3. resolving the center of the lasers instagib issue.

[angrypyro]

Originally Posted by FDA_Approved

I'm fine with all of those.

I'm not fine with someone coming up to me and inflicting damage by waving a weapon around me and then leaving me with a DoT, regardless of how I react after the initial lighting.

A pyro sacrifices direct damage for a DOT. Also, a level 1 burn isn't going to do much damage. You'd have to be hit by 2 or 3 weapons before you get damaged seriously.

[Raynian]

Originally Posted by KubeDawg

EMP grenade should go to the spy, who can disable, but not destroy enemy equipment. A bar on the engineer's screen would appear when wrenching the disabled SG or Dispenser that'd fill up after a certain amount of whacks, thus fixing the buildable.

Hold up. This idea seems really familiar...as if someone's suggested it before.

Pyro - should just be more of a utility class rather than a dps whore. Keep flame trimping and being able to get ridiculous speeds, and add a blind (or a slow but GOD that would induce rage), reduce damage to compensate.

Sniper - fuck this class. How can people honestly say he needs a grenade to defend himself? He's got the most range, one of the three pseudo insta-gib weapons in the game (rifle, pipetraps, knife), and has the third fastest movespeed in the game along with a bullshit AR for ezmode dueling. When snipers hide outside spawn, there's -already- no fucking reason to waste time trying to kill them. Don't make it worse.

Scouts and caltrops - I liked it when scouts could further push their speed advantage when necessary by slowing down enemies. I don't think giving allies a (temporary) speed boost really fits with the class feel, since jump pads are a drop it and forget appliance. If caltrops really have no chance to ever return (I'm assuming because of the issue with needing to look at the ground to see where not to move...which is more intuitive to me than just a grenade going off, but whatever) - how about a grenade that slows down nearby enemies in a huge radius, with stronger slows the closer to the scout/gren they are?

<400 radius to scout - 50% movement slow, gradually returning to full over 5 seconds
400-600 radius - 30% movement slow, returning to full over 3 seconds
600-800 radius - 20% slow, returning to full over 2 seconds.

[Bully]

Originally Posted by Raynian

Hold up. This idea seems really familiar...as if someone's suggested it before.

Many years ago. I'm sure half of the beta forums were removed though.

[Raynian]

repostan

http://forums.fortress-forever.com/p...d=341#note2479

[the_cake]

ey shiz to strung meng

[XPelargos]

If we're mixing and matches nades now, as spy on TALOS, I'd say give scout the time distortion field.

[FDA_Approved]

The soldier doesn't need a fucking secondary, for fuck sake.

Sincerely, career solly.

[CaptainAhab]

Laser grenades are more OP than Moby Dick.

At least, they seemed to be in an AvD (OvD?) game that I just played on Talos. 4-7 of those on the flag 2/3 of the time...

[KubeDawg]

Yeah cornfield was madness. That flag gets stuck in a corner against 3 sollys and grenade resupply nearby and fhagettaboutit.

[XPelargos]

Originally Posted by FDA_Approved

The soldier doesn't need a fucking secondary, for fuck sake.

Sincerely, career solly.

+1, baby!

[eomoyaff]

Squeek,

Verticle Grenade (that concept) + mine = anything that runs or hops over it get's shot up.

When the opponent touches this verticle grenade/mine thing, they also take a slight bit of damage, say 10 or 15 + fall damage, or rocket to face.

It would also benefit disorienting the offense. As a soldier you know where scouts conc from. Place the vert nade there and it messes their conc up. If a scout is escaping with the flag. Put a vert nade at a choke point, and bewm, kills him by chance, or slows him down, and messes the escape up.

Take that genious mind of yours, and vision you playing as soldier, or against soldier on Shutdown 2. Once you have it, do work

[FDA_Approved]

Honestly the vert nade sounds very silly. Also You don't want to have to many mechanics that force people into things, taking control away from the player is never a fun mechanic on the receiving end, and is usually rage inducing after a while. We already have slow nades and spy tranqs that limit player control. And while the slow nade is nowhere near rage inducing it is still heavily criticized by many. Leading me to believe we don't need silly shit like the vert nade.