give me your best ideas

[mervaka]

Originally Posted by Iggy

I'm guessing you mean unlike the Rocket Launcher, Flame Thrower, Pipe Launchers, Knife, and AC?

:P

i never said it was the only specialist weapon, did i?

[FEDOR]

Making a rambo version because I am bored (not to be taken seriously).

CLASS ATTRIBUTES

* Position: Both
* Speed: Current
* Fragmentation Grenades: 0 (reason below)
* Special Skill: M203 rifle attachment
* Health: 90
* Armour: 100
* Armour Class: Medium


PRIMARY WEAPON

* Type: m-4 CUSTOM
* Projectile Speed: Original/Instant.
* Rate Of Fire: Fully semi-automatic while NOT zoomed.
* Clip Size: 10:50
* Reload time: Loaded by 10-round clips, ~3 seconds.
* Damage: Say, 10-15? (I never understood how damage is divided; simply 50% to health and 50% to armor?)
* Available Zoom: Call these "steady shots". When zoomed you cannot run and instantly begin charging without using fire (or can just keep the current system of charging fire). Should you choose to fire at any point before fully charged, it does the *unscaled* value of Damage. Should the fully charged shot be used, it will do the current value 125. Charging speed is the same or slightly decreased to make more viable in offense. Head shots being still counted or not is whatever.

*Notes: The rifle, due to having a semi-automatic nature, will be counted as both a primary and secondary. If that is not enough, include a single-shot shotgun.


PRIMARY GRENADE / SECONDARY GRENADE

The secondary skill of this class is to toggle grenade mode onto the M-4. When on, the fire button launches a grenade with an arc similar to the Pyro's launcher. Frag grenades optional, but this is why I chose the grenades to be 0. These could even be net grenades that entrap a target *upon direct hit*. Whatever it is, they det upon touching anything. Two or three second reload time. 2 default and 4 with grenade bag.


Also rename the class Commando. Or Stallone.

[mervaka]

i think the sniper should have an automatic shotgun with 9999999999 pellets per shot, a hemispherical cone of fire, and 99999999999999 damage per pellet hit, 2x that for a headshot.

oh, and it needs to fire at 999999999999 rpm with no ammo cost.

i think that's fair for snipers to have that?

[FEDOR]

OVERPOWERED

[frogg53186]

Heres my thoughts on the sniper:

CLASS INFO

* Position: Offense
* Speed: Current
* Fragmentation Grenades: 2
* Health: 90
* Armour: 75-100
* Armour Class: Medium

PRIMARY WEAPON

* Type: Railgun, similar to quake 3 arena, no charging of shots. Not sure if headshots would be necessary.
* Projectile Speed: hitscan, and also leaves a colored trail of some kind to promote moving around and not camping
* Rate Of Fire: 1-2s between shots
* Clip Size: no clip, maybe 50 or so shots total
* Damage: not sure, maybe 4 or 5 shots for a soldier, 3 or so for weaker classes
* Available Zoom: probably none

SECONDARY WEAPON - the secondary weapon will be a alternate firing mode for the railgun. I took this idea from the quake 3 mod corkscrew, the alternate fire does no damage but has a blast radius of a rpg, doing similar push to the target. This will be useful for getting across the yard taking little to no self damage and also useful for knocking defenders out of their positions and moving inside the base quickly.

I think for a class to be effective on o, the class has to be able to offer the player some way of competing with concs which i think this will accomplish. A player will just ask, why bother with this if i can go med/scout and just conc across the entire map for one grenade and hardly take any damage from the jump?

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by mervaka

i think the sniper should have an automatic shotgun with 9999999999 pellets per shot, a hemispherical cone of fire, and 99999999999999 damage per pellet hit, 2x that for a headshot.

oh, and it needs to fire at 999999999999 rpm with no ammo cost.

i think that's fair for snipers to have that?

That's an obvious nerf. You just hate snipers, Mervaka.

[SSCUJO]

ok since everyone wants the definitions address'd, the definitions bridget is citing is for a real life sniper. that definition will obviously not include 'deals lots of damage'.

are there any video games where a class is named 'sniper' and that class does not deal high damage at long range? you can't take a real life definition and apply it to a video game that isn't real.

what makes a sniper a sniper in a video game is high damage and long range, i don't imagine there being many video games with sniper weapons or class that do not do that.

that is why i define it as long range high damage.

but since the developers of this game seem to be keeping there minds closed to the ideas and suggestions in this thread i see no more point to it, its just going to turn into another one of bridgets threads if it hasn't already. so pointless.

[Sidd]

Damage is relative. There are quite a few games where the sniper rifle does less damage than a close range shotgun, or a direct hit with a rocket.

[Bridget]

High damage is relative. An uncharged shot relative to a single shotgun blast is damaging. Compared to a rocket, it is next to nothing. A full charged shot triumphs the explosive blue pipe, but is a scratch compared to a Mirv grenade. How do we define high damage?

Likewise, if distance is what defines the Snipers, then would you agree that a Sniper playing base defense gibbing enemies at close range with his sniper rifle is temporarily no longer a Sniper? What if I fire a rocket, however slow, from across the map and hit someone coming out of their battlements. Is the Soldier now a Sniper? That rocket is high damage relative to everything weaker than it. (Yet, weak to everything stronger than it.) so am I a Sniper or am I not a Sniper? Who knows.

My argument is that semantics is useless. "We shouldn't change him because he won't be a Sniper anymore!" is not a compelling argument for two reasons: 1. How do we even begin to define a Sniper? and 2. Balancing the game out to be fair for everyone involved is much more beneficial than clinging to a broken class just because 'the name fits'.

[SSCUJO]

bridget this thread is not about changing the sniper into a class that is no longer a sniper no matter how much you think it doesn't fit, no matter how much you feel its not fair. this thread states in the first post.

that the ideas are too keep high damage and long range. and to create a 'sniper' class that would work in a pickup. thats it, anything that doesn't have to do with that does not belong in this thread it belongs in yours.

your definition excuse is purely dancing around the subject, no matter the definition i give, it could be absolutely perfect in everyway, you'd pick it apart and twist it simply because im posting it. anybody and everybody who has ever played videogames knows what a sniper rifle does and needs no definition to it, don't dance around values compared to other weapons. we both know what a sniper rifle is and what it does.

so back to where this thread was going. keep the ideas to something high damage and long range capable and give it abilities that would still allow it to be used in a pickup style game, do what ever you need to do to the class keep those two attributes intact and make it work in pickups.

if you'd like to discuss a class that doesn't do high damage at long range start a new topic.

thank you.

[Sidd]

Kind of cheating your requirements but I think this is as close as you're going to get.

Role: Similar to medic, but with more shooting and less grenading.
Primary Weapon: Rifle. Limited range. Better than the ssg.
Grenades: Concs but no frags.
Secondary Weapon: Anti-materiel rifle. Does huge damage at huge range ... but only against sentry guns (and also strangely against other snipers and civilians). Have to stand still to use, so you can't just run into flagroom and take down the sg, that's the medic's job. If the sg is exposed on an avd map or someone has built in the yard, fire away.

[SSCUJO]

interesting, would make a good situational class in pickups maybe.

[eomoyaff]

Originally Posted by Hammock

You're missing the point of this thread completely, the OP asked for ways the sniper could be redesigned to be acceptable in competitive play. This isn't a discussion on how the sniper could be more effective, it's hypothetical discussion about how he could be accepted.

And like said earlier, if you leave the sniper's main strengths as is, and just alter some of the usefullness of them, he would still not be accepted. The very core design of the sniper is considered cheap, no defender is going to want to be picked off instant killed from a distance, and no offensive person wants to be killed before they even have a chance to do something.

Thus the sniper for competitive purposes would need to be changed into more of a mulcher to be accepted in competitive play.

@Sidd

I understand you wanting to keep the long range component in with him, but if the sniper were to be remade into a mulcher, you can't let him keep his long range instant kill scope thing. Otherwise he would just rape in pubs and pickups. The change would need to be absolute, no lingering of his old style, otherwise he would just be impossible to balance.

Right.. And a soldier in a small hallway isn't cheap? Or how about sticking 2 dispensers between a flag and have a fatty stand on top. Oh wait, I know, how about we do anything in that game and call it cheap? Because it can be. I accept the Sniper the way he is. The problem is, this game isn't meant to be played on a Competitive level . It's meant for the public eye as I've said recently. The Sniper is meant for pub play. The Sniper doesn't need to be changed for anything. This game was based off of TFC. You go ahead and change the aspect of a single class and you're practically turning it into your own game.

[Mikael_hs]

can't the sniperrrifle simply be nerffed considerably into headshots being the only effective powah? That + other changes making him a bit more badass in close proximity. I would like seeing him having a couple of the explosives one gun has in HL and HLDM attatched to his secondary gun. That and no grens presumably.

OR have an entirely new class. A sniper without a sniperrifle is just silly, regardless of ridiculous internet-theoriezzz about what counts as defining qualities or not. I for one would be confused & annoyed if I entered a TF-game (any TF-game) and chose 'sniper' only to find out he's shooting out laserdiscs containing starwars episode4 from some freakish spacegun.

And remember, snipers and pyros are lame lame.

[Bridget]

Originally Posted by eomoyaff

This game was based off of TFC. You go ahead and change the aspect of a single class and you're practically turning it into your own game.

Fortress Forever is a team fortress game, not a team fortress classic game. It already has differences, which by your definition, make it its own game. But guess what? That's the point. It's supposed to be its own game. Why would people copy a pre-existing game detail for detail without any new additions? It seems pretty damn redundant.

[FEDOR]

Originally Posted by Sidd

Secondary Weapon: Anti-materiel rifle. Does huge damage at huge range ... but only against sentry guns (and also strangely against other snipers and civilians). Have to stand still to use, so you can't just run into flagroom and take down the sg, that's the medic's job. If the sg is exposed on an avd map or someone has built in the yard, fire away.

Fuck that. Give him

YouTube

YouTube

.

[SSCUJO]

atleast it would be used in league play...

[squeek.]

Originally Posted by SSCUJO

atleast it would be banned in league play...

[eomoyaff]

Originally Posted by Bridget

Fortress Forever is a team fortress game, not a team fortress classic game. It already has differences, which by your definition, make it its own game. But guess what? That's the point. It's supposed to be its own game. Why would people copy a pre-existing game detail for detail without any new additions? It seems pretty damn redundant.

FF carries the closest relation to TFC. TFC, the mod used from Half-Life's Engine. Fortress Forever, used from Source Engine, which was used by Half-Life 2. The classes are very closely Identical to that of TFC. The only thing that really separates the two, is the physics. If it were it's own game, it wouldn't follow the very inspirations and identities of TFC. This game is "Team Fortress Source."...

So please, try to argue some more about how that's not right. I'd like a little more humor dipped in my evening cup of laughter.

[squeek.]

Jump pad? Double jump? Burn levels? Cloak? Pyro FT push? Radiotagging? Railgun? Sabotage?

If it's not already clear that FF is not a clone of TFC, it will be in the future. It was never the intention of FF to emulate TFC exactly.